Some through the waters, some through the flood,
Some through the fire, but all through the blood;
Some through great sorrow, but God gives a song,
In the night season and all the day long.

60 years of living has taught me that all debates concerning life really come to a head at the moment of death. When you glance at your loved ones and hold on to their warm hands for the last time, knowing you are about to enter an unknown world in which there is no return, could your life-long beliefs which you so gallantly defended give you the confidence to step into death? Personally, I dread that moment and yet I know such a moment will come one day. In fact, for my own sake, I should be as clear-headed as possible when it shows up at last – not in some drunken stupor or drugged condition or be high on some religious fervor. These are but various forms of the desperate attempt to clutch at straws. But coming back, can I on the balance of things, honestly, clearly and calmly say, “yes, I know where I am going” in the face of death? And would I be willing to accept whatever consequence my confidence in my belief may land me after death?

I don’t know about others, but for me, at such a crucial moment, I don’t think I would be bothered with pride, ability or ancestry. Instead, I would be carefully weighing my options because my destiny hangs on the truth of what I believe.

Blessings,
Fellow sojourner

When you regard someone being knowledgeable, it MUST be accompanied by some proofs and evidences. How do you know that those Answering Islam authors are knowledgable? Just because they are by your side? How do you know they never lied or posting propangandas and misquoting Quranic verses to support their claims? Have you researched enough that what they said is true?

Anyway, you also have not proven, that those “moved by God” in writing the Gospels are really inspired by GOD. What’s the prove? Why are their writings differ from each other? Why are the events recorded about Jesus differs from each individual’s account?

One example. you quoted, Jesus was hung on a tree bracketed (cross). Halo, can you make up your mind. A tree or a cross??

Simply said, I do not need ppl like Answering Islam authors, or even Answering Christianity authors to point an error in the bible. Just reading it, I can show you what is wrong based on my own understanding. Christianity just tried to twist every word in the bible to make it sound like Jesus claiming as God.

BTW, it is your bible scholars from the highest emminence who claimed there are fabrications in your bible hence some verses are removed from the bible, not Islamic scholars. How could these scholars or even you be assured that the Bible is 100% error free after the omission? Even more, you don’t even have knowledge to read and understand Greek or Aramaic, how could you rely on the English translations to understand bible?

Show me an unequivocal statement in your bible that Jesus claim he is God and worship him.

Can you?

Peace out

To Haikel
The words of Zaid that you quoted were a response to what I wrote (Sonlight
Feb 27th, 2010 at 3:14 am) replying to Zaid’s poor attempt to prove that the Quran is a miracle of Allah.

Actually I did mention something in my earlier post that I feel is relevant. I reproduce it below:-

Sonlight
Mar 2nd, 2010 at 4:06 am
To Zaid
You say: zaid, Mar 1st, 2010 at 10:01 am”……. Please address the issue how your bible can be the words of God, since the writers were anonymous. No references, no last names and no gospels written during Jesus life.”

Your question is not very accurate ( and reveals Muslims misconception of what the Gospel is) but I will attempt to answer it anyway. (I am only attempting to answer this question as I believe not everyone would go to the web-site ‘Answering Islam’ for answers. The people at Answering Islam are certainly more knowledgeable than me.)

The Bible is Scripture (God’s word) for the Christian. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…” – 2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)

Firstly the Bible is actually a collection of books written over a period of hundreds of years. Therefore, many persons had a hand in writing the books of the Bible. But Christians believe they were all moved by God when they wrote the books (as the verse I quoted states)

The origins of some of the books do not present any problems as I understand it. For example : The letters of Saint Peter. (1 Peter 1:1) -”Peter, an apostle of Jesus. To God’s elect” . This indicates that he wrote the letter. (There was only one apostle named Peter so his not giving of a last name is no issue.) It cannot be said that this book was written by an anonymous person.

Also I wish to point out the verse -1 Peter 2:24“He (Christ) himself bore our sins in his body on the tree.”. Here we have part of the Gospel message; i.e. that Jesus died on the cross (tree) for the sins of the world.

So here is a book which claims to have been authored by one of the original twelve disciples of Jesus telling us that Jesus was crucified for the sins of man.

Muslims must reject this (of course) to remain Muslims , e.g. -zaid, Feb 23rd, 2010 at 9:49 am
“……First of all, we Muslims don’t believe that Jesus was ever crucified yet even resurrected.
Those events and stories you (Hamzah) quoted about Jesus crucifixion and resurrection are fabrications and lies by Bible authors. They wrote what they like and what they wanted Jesus to be, so what ever Thomas sayings are “fictions” and simply cooked up.” – Zaid.

So Zaid, I do not know how you want me to prove the authenticity of the books of the Bible, since you will not accept it anyway…… (end of quote)

So, Haikel, Please take note that although, in the past, I may not have addressed all the issues concerning the Bible, I wish to point out that Muslims have ignored or attempt to discredit all the points that I did put forward. That is why I said to Zaid (and it applies also to you)…”So Zaid, I do not know how you want me to prove the authenticity of the books of the Bible, since you will not accept it anyway…”

If you are sincere in knowing more about why the Bible is accepted as the word of God by Christians, you may visit the Answering Islam web-site. They are more capable than myself.

peace..out

YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE POST BELOW BY Brother ZAID, Do you need a year to answer the simplest question or a lifetime or probably you will get the answer once you are 6 FEET UNDER???

BTW, you have not prove to me who authenticate your bible? Jesus?God? Paul? From what I have learned, the 4 Gospels by Mark, Luke, Matthew and John were written at different timings. ALL the 4 Gospels begins with “According To..” So what is according to?? It refers to a 3rd party, so these writers are actually consolidating and compiling the gospels”according to somebody else’s words”. 4 WRITERS, 4 GOSPELS. NOT EVEN ONE OF THEM REMEMBERED TO PUT IN THEIR REFERENCES OR LAST NAME. SO WHO WERE THEY AND WHO ARE THEIR REFERENCES OR SOURCES? SINCE ALL HAD QUOTED THE WORDS FROM SOMEBODY ELSE’S, DON’T YOU THINK YOUR BIBLE CRITICALLY NEEDS TO BE SCRUTINIZED?

Sincerely, I have many Christian friends and majority of them do not know how Christianity was formed or established. No one really questioned about how the way of Christianity worship, prayers and practices came about back in time. No one even bothers to search deeply, what Jesus had taught, guided or preached back during his time. I would like to question, why God had created Human whom God knows well will turn our to be sinners?

Life has its purpose and God does not create human out or error and did not sent “his” son alias Himself to redeem our sins. For God has said in the Koran, ” Be and it is”. Why God allows man to sin, is to show His blessings on us, as for those who sin and repent such does not repeat their mistakes, God is Most Merciful and Forgiving. Every soul whom has erred but submits to God with sincere repentance, shall earn salvation with God’s will. Nobody can redeem the sins of others, much like what Bible taught. So why should God “troubled” himself to die for our sins??

I guess, not just Christmas is NOT Jesus birthday, the concept of Trinity, original sins, baptism, worshipping on “Sun” day all comes from Pagan beliefs authenticated by Constatinople to blend into his Pagan worshipping of the Sun God. All this, as Constatinople knew would draw great support from the Pagan Romans to remain in power. Sadly to his son, wife and other Unitarians, none were spared by him, but eradicated from the surface of the earth.

So, should we bother whether Christmas is Jesus birthday? No problem to Mr Sonlight!
So faith shouldn’t be question??

Seek truth with sincere and open heart, Truth will prevail and triumph over falsehood.

Peace

But in my personal opinion now, I feel the other Christian group that you have mentioned (I have heard about them but have not really read up tho) who do not celebrate Christmas is staying true to the religion. It may not bother you and to the majority of us, but This is what bothering me. We are celebrating a day which is not even the actual date but some date that has its links to a non-Christian holy day. I’ve just got to know that its a Pagan holiday. While it seems Christ remembrance has triumph over this original date, it saddens me to see that the majority doesnt know the true origin of it. Worse still, there is even a Christmas song (“Marys Boy Child (O My Lord)” song by Boney M ) I can remember that it goes something like this:

Mary’s boy child
Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day
And man will live for evermore because of Christmas Day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7-4GC828rM

Nice song, but misleading to the point of bordering dangerously close to deceit. Sorry for my opinion here brother, but to be a true follower of the religion, I strongly feel we should stay true to the message and teachings. Disassociating ourselves from any Pagan rituals or holidays is one of the things we should adhere to. Just my opinion here though. Have a Happy Holiday to you bro. I shall sit this one out because it’s not really Christ’s birthday.

To Martin,
That Jesus was born is a widely accepted fact. Christians are uncertain as to the exact date of Jesus’ birthday.
From my reading (e.g. wiki) the Church in the early centuries (because of convenience) decided to celebrate the birth of Lord Jesus on Dec. 25 which is the same day as the Roman non-Christians were celebrating their own festival.
It does not trouble me that Dec. 25 was probably a Roman non-Christian holy day.

I have heard of certain Christian groups who do not celebrate Christmas because Dec. 25 was a non-Christian festival day. I feel these groups have missed the point. Christmas is a good time to draw attention of non-believers to Jesus (the reason for the season); the greatest gift anyone can have ( John 3:16 ).

Blessed Christmas to you.