In the words of the Muslim Iranian Scholar Ali Dashti:

“The Qor’an contains sentences which are incomplete and not fully intelligible without the aid of commentaries; foreign words, unfamiliar Arabic words, and words used with other than the normal meaning; adjectives and verbs inflected without observance of the concords of gender and number; illogically and ungrammatically applied pronouns which sometimes have no referent; and predicates which in rhymed passages are often remote from the subjects. These and other such aberrations in the language have given scope to critics who deny the Qor’an’s eloquence. The problem also occupied the minds of devout Moslems. It forced the commentators to search for explanations and was probably one of the causes of disagreement over readings.”

(Ali Dashti, Twenty-Three Years: A study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad, Allen and Unwin, London, 1985, pp. 48-49)

“To sum up, MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED QORANIC Aberrations (errors and mistakes)from the normal rules and structure of Arabic have been noted. Needless to say, the commentators strove to find explanations and justifications of these irregularities. Among them was the great commentator and philologist Mahmud oz-Zamakhshari (467/1075-538/1144), of whom a Moorish author wrote: ‘This grammar-obsessed pedant has committed a shocking error. Our task is not to make the readings conform to Arabic grammar, but to take the whole of the Qor’an as it is and make Arabic grammar conform to the Qor’an.’”

(Ibid., p. 50)

Not just Ali Dashti is correct in his assessment of the quran, even BEFORE his time, we have the admissions of Muslim scholars like Ibn Khaldun on the Quran’s many clear inconsistencies. So, Dashti is not the only islamic scholar alone in his honest and objective conclusions on the Quran’s inconsistencies!

The famous classical Muslim scholar, Ibn Khaldun confirms that the Quran had indeed been corrupted due to mistakes made by scribes :

“Arabic writing at the beginning of Islam was, therefore, not of the best quality nor of the greatest accuracy and excellence. It was not (even) of medium quality, because the Arabs possessed the savage desert attitude and were not familiar with crafts. One may compare what happened to the orthography of the Qur’an on account of this situation. The men around Muhammad wrote the Qur’an in their own script which was not of a firmly established, good quality. MOST OF THE LETTERS WERE IN CONTRADICTION TO THE ORTHOGRAPHY REQUIRED BY PERSONS VERSED IN THE CRAFT OF WRITING … Consequently, the Qur’anic orthography of the men around Muhammad was followed and became established, and the scholars acquainted with it have called attention to passages where (this is noticeable).

Ibn Khaldun cautions against taking the defensive statements of the fundamentalist detractors seriously when he says:

No attention should be paid in this connection with those incompetent (scholars) that (the men around Muhammad) knew well the art of writing and that the alleged discrepancies between their writing and the principles of orthography are not discrepancies, as has been alleged, but have a reason. For instance, they explain the addition of the alif in la ‘adhbahannahU ‘ I shall indeed slaughter him’ as indication that the slaughtering did not take place ( lA ‘adhbahannahU ). The addition of the ya in bi-ayydin ‘with hands (power),’ they explain as an indication that the divine power is perfect.

There are similar things based on nothing but purely arbitrary assumptions. The only reason that caused them to (assume such things) is their belief that (their explanations) would free the men around Muhammad from the suspicion of deficiency, in the sense that they were not able to write well. They think that good writing is perfection. Thus, they do not admit the fact that the men around Muhammad were deficient in writing.”

(The Muqaddima, Ibn Khaldun, vol. 2, p. 382)

The preceding citations clearly demonstrate that the scholars themselves are aware that the Quran contains hundreds, if not thousands, of erroneous and variant readings.

Muslim propogandists and fundamentalists like those posting flowing verses from the Bible – BUT with no accurate exegesis whatsoever, here will do really well to first go and study, and examine studiously the works of these muslim scholars above, before impassionedly trying to make more embarassing statements, that ultimately does not reflect positively on Islam! Think on that ‘infidel’ muslim..

Hamzah.

Some Christians mistakenly think they no longer have to obey any of the laws and commandments set out by God the Father in the Old Testament since they are now operating under a new covenant with Jesus. But this view is wrong. Jesus Himself says that He did not come to do away with the law, but to FULFILL it. Here is the verse. This is Jesus talking:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to FULFILL. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17-18)

Jesus APPROVED all those verses in the Old Testament!!!

Very much similar to his perverted founder of islam-Muhammad! Who gave himself undue privileges for more than the prescribed 4 wives, and then stealing away his son-in-law’s wife to marry, and was a avid practitioner of Pedophilea on the 6-9 year old girl Aisha..amongt many other unmentionable perverse things!

Like I said, this nut-case infidel could never find any such similarities in the life and words of Jesus Christ, and his posts never proved that Jesus did any such perversions. But only in infidel’s desperate and bankrupt perverted, wild fantasies.

1 Karena itu panggillah sesamamu dengan nama Umat Allah dan Dikasihani TUHAN

2 TUHAN berkata, Hai anak-anak-Ku, ibumu bukan istri-Ku lagi, dan Aku bukan suaminya. Sebab itu, perkarakanlah dia supaya ia jangan BERZINA dan jangan MELACUR lagi.

3 Jika ia tetap MELACUR, Aku akan menanggalkan pakaiannya supaya ia TELANJANG seperti pada hari ia dilahirkan. Akan Kujadikan dia seperti tanah kering dan gersang, maka ia akan mati kehausan.

4 Kamu, anak-anaknya, tidak akan Kukasihani; kamu lahir dari PELACURAN.

5 Ibumu PELACUR yang tidak tahu malu. Ia berkata, ‘Aku akan pergi kepada kekasih-kekasihku yang memberi aku makanan dan minuman, wol dan kain linen, minyak zaitun dan anggur.’

6 Sebab itu, Aku akan mengurung dia dengan belukar duri, dan menutup jalannya dengan pagar tembok.

7 Ia akan mengejar kekasih-kekasihnya, tapi tidak akan sampai kepada mereka. Ia akan mencari mereka, tapi tidak akan menemukan mereka. Lalu ia akan berkata, ‘Aku akan kembali kepada suamiku yang pertama; dulu keadaanku lebih baik daripada sekarang.’

8 Ibumu tidak pernah mengakui bahwa Akulah yang memberi dia gandum, anggur, minyak zaitun, dan segala emas perak yang dipakainya untuk menyembah Baal itu.

9 Karena itu, di musim panen Aku akan menarik kembali pemberian-Ku, yaitu gandum dan anggur, serta wol dan kain linen yang Kuberikan kepadanya untuk pakaiannya.

10 Akan KUTELANJANGI dia di depan semua kekasihnya. Tak seorang pun dari mereka dapat melepaskan dia dari kekuasaan-Ku.

11 Segala pestanya akan Kuhentikan, baik pesta tahunan maupun pesta bulanan dan hari-hari Sabat; singkatnya, segala perayaan keagamaannya.

http://bis.scripturetext.com/hosea/2.htm

WHY BIBLE IS THE CORRUPTED BOOK AND THE WORK OF MAN?

The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark–is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the “clean” ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem–a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ’s last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ’s father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

Of the various methods I’ve seen to “explain” these:

1. “That is to be taken metaphorically.” In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN’T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD–which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want…

2. “There was more there than….” This is used when one verse says “there was a” and another says “there was b,” so they decide there was “a” AND “b”–which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn’t say there WASN’T “a b.” But it doesn’t say there was “a b little green martians.” This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e., only “a”) and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don’t mind adding to verses.

3. “It has to be understood in context.” I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set which is supposed to be taken as THE TRUTH when, if you add more to it, it suddenly becomes “out of context.” How many of you have gotten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown at you?

4. “There was just a copying/writing error.” This is sometimes called a “transcription error,” as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or what was “quoted” wasn’t really what was said, but just what the author thought was said. And that’s right–I’m not disagreeing with events, I’m disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the Bible itself is wrong.

5. “That is a miracle.” Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.

6. “God works in mysterious ways.” A useful dodge when the speaker doesn’t understand the conflict between what the Bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.

Your posts of flowing Bible texts prove ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, since your action proves only your drunken state of mind stupefied with the desire with trying to debunk the Bible and Christianity at all cost!

IF all these verses amount to anything at all, then Christian theologians. textual critics and reputable scholars who have studied these texts would be the first to abandon the Bible and their Christian faith, but there are thousands of such scholars who remain strongly and firmly committed to the authenticity and credibility of the Christian Bible.

May I bring you back to the real point of my reply to your earlier post, that you are simply incapable to ascribe any pof those words to the lips of the Lord Jesus Christ – Sayidina Isa al-Masih, when the very opposite can be sourced from the words of the prophet of Islam – Muhammad himself:

So, I do repeat, True Infidel, you’re just another desperado having fantastic delusions and misquoting the Scriptures like a beheaded chicken running around with nothing to show except your own stupidity, this time REAL stupidity.

Majority of those verses are not only irrelevant, but are quoted out of context and so are totally mindless, as you are when you try to mock Christians with such an act.LOL!

NONE of those verses you misquoted you will be able attribute to the Lord Jesus Christ, anyway.

Unlike the vulgar misdeeds and suggestions of Muhammad the founder of Islam, who promoted the adulterous and opportunistic idea of redaat al-kabir -Adult Suckling AMONG GROWN-UPS (he made and did other more similar things, too):

Book 008, Number 3424:
‘ A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be eupon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: SUCKLE HIM. She said: How can I suckle him as HE IS A GROWN-UP MAN? Allah’s Messenger smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. ‘Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn ‘Umar : Allah’s Messenger LAUGHED.

——————————————————————————–
Book 008, Number 3425:
‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (purbety) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeare

Perhaps you find this idea tittilating, so you should then convert to islam to enjoy this advantage…::-))))!! More likely – YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF ISLAM, and its deluded, perverted founder, Muhammad…ie.monkey see, monkey do likewise..!

Hamzah.

This is in answer to your stupendous claims for your defective Quran, you made on June 29 – in your ‘PS’ above:

PS. I agree with you totally on one thing. The Bible is NOT like the Quran. Unlike the Bible, every word you read in the Quran are in its ORIGINAL language.

Hamzah: WHAT a JOKE! Your Quran today is NOT the original one, far and away! the THIRD muslim Caliph, Uthman-ordered the destruction of ALL the existing different versions of the Quran during his reign.

This is recorded in the Hadith ‘sahih:

“Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the Qur’anic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, TO BE BURNT! (Sahih Bukhari 6.510)

After these copies were sent out, Zaid b. Thabit recalled a verse which was missing from it:

“A verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur’an and I used to hear Allah’s Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima-bin-Thabit al Ansari.” (Sahih Bukhari 6.510).

That verse is the famous Sura al-Ahzab 33:23.

The event may mean :

that verse was not in the collection of Hafsa, contradicting Muslim claims that the Uthmanic recension merely made public the Qur’an written down during Abu Bakr’s time,

or,

that Zaid overlooked the verse while copying.

“And there is only ONE version of the Quran. Any true Muslims be it they are English, German or Chinese, we can recite the Quran in one unified voice.”

NOT before the revision of the Quran by Zaid bin Thabit, and his Editorial Committee of 5 people!

THOSE Original ‘Originals’ of the Quran were ALL DESTROYED BY BURNING by order of Khalifah Uthman. WHY? They must contain so many differences and contradictions that Uthman HAD TO DESTROY THEM All!

This hadith Confirms that the Quran had to RE-WRITTEN by this Editorial Committee commissioned by the Caliph!

So, forget about trying to tell us the LIES that today’s Quran is ‘original’ when it is very clearly NOT.

“The Bible on the other hand is NOT in its ORIGINAL language for it can be found in English, German, Malay, French and what have you and it comes with different versions that there is no way you can recite it in one unified voice like the Quran.”

This is an IGNORANT point and proves your shallow and abysmal ignorance of the facts!

The BIble was never meant for RECITING! Thats another difference from your quran. Jesus Christ never gave the Injil to His followers for reciting purposes. You are forcing your false quranic construct upon the Bible’s usage, most ignorantly!

” And before the modern languages, the Bible was in Latin and before Latin it was in different texts of the Greek Septuagint translations and many others. And best of all, Jesus did not even speak in any of these languages.

PROVE that! Another false assertion that is nothing more than desperate polemics. How do you know for sure that Jesus ‘did not even speak in any of these languages..’

Get this! In Jesus’ day, the Roman Empire had already long established Greek as the universal language of the empire, it was widely spoken in all its colonies. The Lord Jesus Christ was from Galillee in Israel, this was a GENTILE region on the nation. Obviously, the Gentile population spoke their non-Jewish tongues, including Greek – the national language of the Empire.

Many informed Scholars tell us that Jesus spoke multiple languages like Hebrew, Greek and His own dialect of Aramaic.

I rather have a scripture that I can fully understand and apply to life, than something that is impossible to translate or even interpret meaningfully, like the Quran.

The Quran is believed in just BLINDLY, without proper understanding and meaningful interpretation. It actually has hundreds of errors in grammar, syntax and even vocabulary in its original language Arabic! No wonder the ulema claim that it is so-called ‘untranslatable’.

But that is just another lame excuse to cover up the pathetic incoherence and inconsistencies of the Quran.

And. like I said, the Quran cannot stand by itself, and it has to be qualified and guided by the Hadith to clarifiy HOW TO APPLY its injunctions to life, practically!

And the so-called ‘valid’ Hadiths themselves are so full of nonsense and irrational teachings that even today, Muslims are abandoning it altogether – Just see (www.submission.org).

What the Sunni groups CLAIM AS the so-called ‘Valid Hadiths’, are ALL REJECTED AND Thrown out by their Shia conterparts TOTALLY – as COMPLETELY INVALID, WORTHLESS!

The Shia Muslims have their own ‘Valid Hadiths’ that they favour, and THESE in turn are THROWN OUT 100% by the Sunni Muslims – AS Worthless!

This is a great JOKE, truly!

Wasalaam, Hamzah.