If i were to choose which faith to follow, I will follow Christianity now.

Look at you. From beginning to end you post criticism about Christianity. You said you were sorry time and again. But time and again you post those kind of statements.

Not once I see the Christians attacking you. Though this is a christian blog after all.

Arent you ashame? Is this how Islam has taught you to dakwah?

And your facts are so illogical. All you did was quoted it from some website and expect people to listen to you as though you are some scholar.

Have some respect to Allah. Present and dakwah yourself in a manner where you glorify Allah.

Many Christians I know will evangelise without criticising other religions. Maybe a few black sheeps. But most dont. They believe in the power of their gospel message. Syukri, do you believe in the power of the Word of Allah the Quran? Than present yourself in that manner if you believe! Dakwah and present Islam! What you are doing actually embarass me alot!

Your last post is filled with randomness. You just choose a topic and then change it and then move on to another topic. Then the final touch it looks so well written but actually everything is copy and paste. You spend your time so much on the internet finding information to post here and you forgot to spend time to talk about Allah.

Malulah!

Allow me to reply to you reality check on Islam dated April 12, 2009

I agree with you that violence is exist in both religion, in fact, in all religions. Expecting a perfect world is a utopian and never be materialized because Allah want this world to be the place of test and imperfection so that we can strife and put effort.

But we can’t say that because the both religion contain some violence, therefore they are the same. Example, having similar feature to human like eyes, nose and leg does not make monkey similar to human because we are assessed in a bigger perspective.

There are degree, motives and perspective that need to be looked into. For example, with regard to antisemitism in Medieval Islam, it was local and sporadic rather than general and endemic. For Goitein antisemitism was not present at all, and for Cahen it was rarely present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism

VIOLENCE IN ISLAM
Let me respond to my ‘dirty laundry’ that your presented to me on…
http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/index.htm

My response :Bloody self beating by shia is a practise done by minority shia and frown upon by mainstream muslim.

And it started earlier from your ‘dirty laundry’. The self beating has it root in Christianity called ‘flagellation’ or mortification of flesh.

Mortification of the flesh literally means “putting the flesh to death”. The term is primarily used in religious and spiritual contexts. The institutional and traditional terminology of this practice in Catholicism is corporal mortification.

The term “mortification of the flesh” comes from Saint Paul in this quote: “For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live”.The same idea is seen in the following verses: “Put to death what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry” “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires”.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_of_the_flesh

Wikipedia says; The Flagellation refers in a Christian context to the Flagellation of Christ, an episode in the Passion of Christ prior to the Jesus’ crucifixion. The practice of mortification of the flesh for religious purposes was utilized by some Christians throughout most of Christian history, especially in Catholic monasteries and convents. In the 13th century, a radical group of christians, known as the Flagellants, took this practice to an extreme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation

The question is, does Islam promote violence? I say : No. Then you may say that’s because I’m Muslim and I must glorify Islam no matter what. However, the matter is not as simple as that. Most of the account of history that I refer is not from Muslim source to show the objectivity of my claim.

ISLAM AND PEACE/TOLERANCE
Islam accepts difference of religion within its political sphere and believe in peaceful co existence. When Muslim are powerful and lead the majority, there will be always non-Muslim who are living in prosperity. The closer example are like Chinese in Malaysia and Indonesia who are given equal right of citizenship and right to vote to chose their representative and given important ministerial post in government to develop the country.

If you go little back earlier in history, Christian are given opportunity to participate in Muslim Spain in science that contribute to the foundation of renaissance. The society of Al-Andalus was made up of three main religious groups: Christians, Muslims and Jews. Mozarabs were Christians that had long lived under Muslim rule and so had adopted many Arabic customs, art and words, while still maintaining their Christian rituals and their own Romance languages.

María Rosa Menocal, a specialist in Iberian literature, has argued that “tolerance was an inherent aspect of Andalusian society. In her view, the Jewish and Christian dhimmis living under the Caliphate, while allowed fewer rights than Muslims, were much better off than in other parts of Christian Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

Islam also contributed greatly to The renaissance. The renaissance of Europe will not be completed without Islamic civilization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

Go back further, in Ottoman caliphate, Christians and Jews are involved in administration and enjoyed relative prosperity. During inquisition, Jews went to Muslim countries like Morocco and Turkey.

Wikipedia says: The Ottoman Empire was, in principle, tolerant towards Christians and Jews, but not polytheists, in accordance with Sharia law. Forced conversion is counter to Sharia law, and was not standard practice, so was not practiced. Though far short of modern standards, Ottoman tolerance was particularly constructive compared to the contemporary situation in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

And go back back further, Caliph Umar accepted the key of Jerusalem himself showing the just leader who were accepted even by non muslim. The treaty outlines the rights of Christians and Jews as “People of the Book” or “people of protection” to enjoy religious freedom under Muslim rule, while outlining their responsibility to pay taxes (jizya). Both Palestinian Christians and Muslims see the document as having the force of law, even after more than thirteen centuries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Umariyya_Covenant

And interestingly, during prophet Muhammad time, one of his servant was a Jewish boy, one of his wife was Maria the Coptic who bore him a son ( she was Christian ) and Safiyyah who was a Jewish.

Non-muslim in muslim authority are treated specially and they are called ‘dhimmi’ or protected one.Bernard Lewis states that in most respects their position “was very much easier than that of non-Christians or even of heretical Christians in medieval Europe. For example, dhimmis rarely faced martyrdom or exile, or forced compulsion to change their religion, and with certain exceptions they were free in their choice of residence and profession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

I think you know about Crusade and Saladin. Wikipedia says about him: Notwithstanding the differences in beliefs, the Muslim Saladin was respected by Christian lords, Richard especially. Richard once praised Saladin as a great prince, saying that he was without doubt the greatest and most powerful leader in the Islamic world.[97] Saladin in turn stated that there was not a more honorable Christian lord than Richard. After the treaty, Saladin and Richard sent each other many gifts as tokens of respect, but never met face to face again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

I went to Egypt last year, and it was amazing to see church every where in Cairo even though Christians are only represent less than 10 per cent of the population. Can I see an ancient mosque in europe as a proof of relegious tolerance of Christians?

This account of Muslim history are reflection of the divine order by Allah in The Holy Quran:

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. Al Quran

60:8 As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. Al Quran.

CHRISTIANITY AND PEACE
I may be biased toward Christianity in which I would like to apologize, but I don’t compose and compile the facts of atrocities done by Christian through history below.
http://www.buckcash.com/opinions/temp/Christian_Crimeline.htm

The church, the most sacred place in Christianity is no escape from abuse and ungodliness. The scandal of priest is not a myth. It’s undeniable fact and well known.

Wikipedia says: During a recent visit to the United States Pope Benedict admitted that he is “deeply ashamed” of the clergy sex abuse scandal that has devastated the American church. Benedict pledged that pedophiles would not be priests in the Roman Catholic Church. Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, retired Archbishop of Washington, blamed the declining morals of the late 20th century as a cause of the high number of sexually abusive priests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_scandal

EMMANUEL REZA
Brother Emmanuel, I must admit that the way you present your argument show at least you are a rational and scholarly person. You have integrity and objectivity in your ideas. Your English is superb.

Brother Emmanuel, I wonder whether you have studied Islam as deeply as as you studied Christianity before you chose Jesus as your saviour. Or it is based on faith alone? Or because love is blind? If that so, why all these arguments and discussion?

Did you read the whole Quran and study arabic as you studied Bible, Hebrew and Greek? Did you read history about Islam and Christianity objectively and justly before you decided to leave Islam? Did you read about Prophet Muhammad and his life? I wonder..

Syukri
Kuala Lumpur

Thanks for your prayer. I will also pray to Allah that He guide us to the most righteous path.

The path of Allah is filled with test and tribulation. Let’s this discussion strengthen our faith to The Almighty instead of it breaking our hearts.

True. We don’t know the real truth until we meet The Almighty in the Day of Judgement. Allah asked Prophet to objectively say that in Quran;

34:24 Say: “Who gives you sustenance, from the heavens and the earth?” Say: “It is Allah. and certain it is that either WE or YE are on right guidance or in manifest error”

At the meantime, let us seek, understand and discover along the way because the truth is not the destination, but the journey itself. Faith is not only word and conviction, but action and perseverence.

4:36 Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- Al Quran

I personally don’t like people asking me to read a directed web link since I like to read his/her summary of thought instead of other people thought that he/shares, but can you do me a favour by reading this weblink because it very much resembles your story of finding the truth ( as I assumed ).

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/Yusuf_story.htm

Allah said:5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. Al Quran

3:45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Al Masih Isa, the son of Maryam, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. Al Quran

Thank your very much Brother Emmanuel

Syukri
Kuala Lumpur

Few notes to ponder.

These lists are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible, especially problems which are inherent in a literalist or fundamentalist interpretation. Some of the selections may be resolvable on certain interpretations–after all, almost any problem can be eliminated with suitable rationalizations–but it is the reader’s obligation to test this possibility and to decide whether it really makes appropriate sense to do this. To help readers in this task, these lists are aimed at presenting examples where problems may exist given certain allowable (but not always obligatory) assumptions. It should be kept in mind that a perfect and omnipotent God could, should, and likely would see to it that such problems did not exist in a book which s/he had inspired. It should also be kept in mind that what is and is not an atrocity is to some extent a matter of opinion. You are entitled to disagree with the author that these are, in fact, atrocities.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

Thank you

God bless you on your wonderful spiritual journey. I’m most impressed with your fervor for Islam. Keep it up. A true seeker of the Truth is seen in your heart. Let us pray that this seeking is also in search for PEACE within and without.

Let us also pray that there will be reconciliation between the spiritual seeds of Isaac & Ishmael.

Let us also pray that Jesus the Messiah (Isa Al-Masih as mentioned the Al-Quran) will manifest in our lives.

The word Messiah means Savior. Let Him be the Savior of my life. And for you Allah will be your Savior, refuge and strength.

The world is One. Unity in diversity. We cut, we bleed the same crimson tide. Let us learn to love one another. Let us live with respect, honour and integrity to our beliefs and values.

You & me, we really don’t know whether what we are presupposing is true or not. It’s all based on faith. So let us fervently wait for the Day of Resurrection that we might meet each other at the table of the Lord.

God bless you & your family richly.

Shalom shalom,
Emmanuel

My comment to Emmanuel is not appearing. Can you fix it?

Thanks

Syukri

Hi Emannuel,

Thank you for your reply. I also would like to thank Tedfox to be gentleman enough to let me post my comment here.I think you have to be patient with me if I don’t understand your points. First, English is not my mother tongue and Bible is not my book

in chapter 8:1 “If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother’s breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother’s house– she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink , the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.”

You said :How come you failed to mention what i said here: “To address Syukri’s comment about the word “sister” used in this book, Song of Songs 4:9-10. As explained in the New International Version of the Archaeological Study Bible, the word “sister” in the context of these verses were a COMMON term of endearment in the love poetry of the ancient Near East.”

Fine, let try this conclusion:
1. They are not brother and sister in blood, the word ‘brother’ is just a term of endearment.

My comment: even they are not brother and sister in blood, there is no mention that they are legally husband and wife. There are words like my dove, my beloved, my brother but none of any mention ‘my husband’. Furthermore, the verses said ‘ If you were to me like a BROTHER, WHO WAS NURSED AT MY MOTHER’S BREAST’. Clearly here, ‘brother who was nursed at my mother’s breast’ is referring to blood brother. My question is: why a wife would hope ( of fantasize ) his husband to be like her blood brother who was nursed at her mother’s if they are legally married? Clearly, they are not married couple.

Well,It’s still confusing and there will be more ‘ you said that I said that you said that I said’ until the coming of the messiah . For me and many, the expression still pornographic in nature and promote sex romp.

If my opinion is not enough, read what an American parent says about Bible: There’s far too much sex and violence available to our children today. Appropriate steps must be taken to shield our young ones from these dangerous influences. Fortunately Congress and the President have signed into legislation a bill allowing parents to block sex and violence from their television sets. It’s called the V-Chip, and it lets parents put an electronic lock on the tube.

Unfortunately the V-Chip doesn’t go far enough. For sex and violence permeate much more than our TV sets. It’s in our schools, our libraries, our homes, and even in our churches. And not only is it available in all these places, it comes to our kids through the very books we want our children to read. And even more unfortunate is the fact that one of the WORST OFFENDERS is OUR BELOVED BIBLE. ( the capitalization is mine )

But it’s true. It’s also rather amazing that this source of negative influence on our children has been overlooked for so long. A considerable amount of effort has gone into banning such books as “The Diary of Anne Frank” for its author’s sexual comments, and the “To Kill a Mockingbird” for its discussion of violent rape. Many other books have rightfully been banned or exposed for their violence, murder, and cruelty — all things we must keep from youthful eyes. And yet the Bible, full of the very same demented activity, has yet to be exposed.

To see his personal Bible list that contains more porn and violence, click here:
http://www.elroy.net/ehr/vchip.html

Well,I wonder how you are going to rationalize all these facts sinceI believe you will come with more rationalization. But it does it mean that it’s true and correct.

Just like the rationalization of Inquisition, slavery, Holocaust, Crusade that were executed with ‘good’ reason at the beginning. The fact is, it still WRONG that finally Pope openly admitted the mistake apologized for it.To read more about pope apology, click
http://www.bibletoday.com/archive/popeapology.htm

My point is rationalization alone is not enough to support your claim about Bible’s innocence of porn and violence because it’s subject to uncertainty and other people will come to the opposite rationalization. It will be never ending process.

Now, by using Bible standard of judgment, let’s look at the fruit or the result of Bible teaching to have the final verdict.
Matthew 7: 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matthew 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the TREE IS KNOWN BY ITS FRUITS.
Luke 6:44 “For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.
James 3:12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh.

If Bible is a tree, Christian are the fruits, right? If you want to know the true colour of Bible, look at the action of Christians who are the reflection of their Bible. Now look at Christians atrocities throughout history.
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-missionary-atrocities.html
http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

History does not lie and does not need rationalization. History is the fact/truth who speak itself. The fruit that Bible produces ( Christians ) show that Bible indeed promotes sex and violence. Therefore does not fit to be the word of God and does not have legitimacy to claim the divinity of Jesus.

Thank you

Syukri