Hi All….
I stumbled upon this blog last year. And I have been following it alot. Even though it does not have much entries in it…..
Anyway, just want to say I share the same views as what Emmanuel wrote. Malays are not equate to Muslims! That is wrong. Sure the majority are muslims. But not all are!
I am also borned in a muslim family. Jesus saves me when I was only 14!! Now ten years have past and Ive grown in faith. I just want to tell you guys out there that malays need to be saved too! In revelations it says EVERY tribe will bow down before God…. We cannot talk about world missions if we leave the malays out…
Sure it is a sensitive issue… But Praise Lord that there are more coming to know Christ….
That alone is the fruits of the many prayers that are made worldwide….
Thank you.
Popularity: 66% [?]
Wow. That’s a great thing to be glad about! Glad to have ya as a Christian brother.
Ever listen to P.O.D??,they r a christian rock band
Hi,
I am interested to have some discussions with you about being a Malay Christian in Singapore. How can I keep in touch with you other than posting replies in your blog?
Hi.
I do not listen to rock music. hehehe
And what kind of discussion you are looking for?
Hi,
I would want to convert to Christianity and would like to know the reaction you faced from your family and society about your decision. Email me at aryansoe@gmail.com.
Hi,
Im too am a Malay Christians (quite recent).
It all began with this blog and i’ve never looked back ever since.
God blessed me with great parents and my journey have been smooth but not without steep hills in the beginning.
Thanks again brother Emmanuel!
Praise The Lord ABEL!!
Wow, I am happy to hear about your faith journey.
Any chance we could link up??
Hi SgCamperBoy,
you can email me at the2ndsonabel@gmail.com
Hi i would like to warn all the malay christians to be careful when meeting up with the other posters here.
For all you know, they may well be muslims seeking a confrontation or trying to denigrate you.
If you have to, go with a bunch of christian friends, you never know what might happen.
There is no compulsion in religion, and it works both ways.
I am a malay muslim converted to a christian
Hi Haiqal.
Praise The Lord!
Glad to know another brother of mine here….
stumble upon this blog,yeah malay christian-its happening here in sg,As a muslim myself let me ask u guys-what is it so special about this faith that u have to leave Islam.I bet u guys are not a practising muslim before that gave way to this evil satan to corrupt your mind coz the fact is that there are thousands of so called ‘non practising’ malay singpaoreans out there,a clear way of this evil satan to attack you from all direction-look at the state of the malay-muslim now???? u guys go figure out.
May Peace Be With You Al Iman.
It does not matter whether the Malay believers were practising or not practising for that matter. Many of us have seen M believers from all walks of life even Imam in a mosque. He is still working in a mosque leading worship. From Imams to students even to politicians and royalties across the causeway, many have seen the true power of God.
But then again, Muslims will still be my cousin of Ishmael. I still love them no matter what. I will try to love them even though as humans it is hard to do so. But I will do it still for God loves me first. No matter what though, I will never call other people’s faith “evil satan” or any other name.
What is so special about this faith? I don’t know. Because this is not a faith. It is a relationship with God and we are walking towards Heaven now.
Pray to Allah that He will give you guidance and truth. Amin.
Peace to everyone. The God I know loves me regardless what I have done. In my journey of faith, I will want to walk straight towards that path, but I will know that during this journey, I will stumble & fall cos I was born a sinner. And no matter I do (how many times I pray, do good deeds and strive to fulfill His words), I will always fall short of his glory. And He told me, not to worry b’cos He’s perfect and through Him, I’m redeemed b’cos He loved me first.
I hope everyone will get to know this God as I did during this short stay on Earth cos He really loves us no matter what colour or race we are from cos we’re His creation. Remember, He loves us no matter what we do….nothing will separate us from His love to us. Listen to His voice
Peace
Peace to all,
there is only 1 Truth irregardless of practice.. please do not fight.. if you search within yourself, u will find The Truth..
Different religions come from different cultures.. Please do not be blinded by ignorant faith.. there are different religions becos each Messenger is being sent down to different communities… different form of dogma, believe & dogma.. but all of the religions are preaching the same Truth, just that people are being do stupid & blind.. please look into your ownself & search until u find the Truth… The Truth is a secret to be unfold & not to be told..
It all starts from breathing..
Peace to all creations in the Heavens & Earth..
Muhyideen..
Hi SGCamper,
So blessed to hear your testimony here! Rock on with the Rock of All ages! Yeshua lives and breathes in you!
Amen & Hallelujah!
Your Bro in Christ,
Emmanuel
Shalom! I was looking for Malay Christians on google and came by your post. Praise God that many more muslims eyes are being opened to God’s Salvation and Truth in Jesus the Christ. That is just wonderful. Jesus is returning soon. Trust Him always. Hold on to Him. God bless you!
my oh my… sembahyang la sebelum kau di sembahyang kan… subhan-allah..
Ur a malay christian. I respect that. But what i am so disturbed is the apathy many singaporeans have on malays. They think: “oh you puasa because you’re malay” or “oh malays cannot eat pig”. i mean, hey– there’re malays out there that dont fast or “puasa” during ramadan, or cant eat pork. I mean. yes, there many are malay muslims. HOWEVER, there are too, malay christians, hindus(Bali-ans, land of java), catholics and others. Just dont stereotype them to one single identity. I get asked: “eh you’re not malay what, why r u fasting?” tsk. tsk. open your minds people
hi,sgcamperboy.i read u n yr new faith and emmnanel too,i began to like and want to close to the christianity faith,but here a cross the causeway there are many restriction can u advise me how can i secretly embrace this beautiful faith over here.Fr casem (msian malay) pls email me thxs.
Shalom to all,
Shaktiar you’re one of the few people in sg who can differentiate between what is race and what is faith. I applaude you for sounding it out and pointing to the clear fact that being Malay does not necessarily mean that you must be a Muslim. Vice versa, these can be Chinese Muslims, Caucasian Muslims, Indian Muslims, etc. With more people like you around it will be much easier for Malay-Christians to be accepted and recognised as a unique community in SG.
Bro Casem, i can emphatise with your difficulty over there. We thank God for the marvels of technology that He has given us. Start reading the bible. In random is definitely fine. Ask God to lead you where you should be reading. You can go on some online resources such as http://www.biblegateway.com and you can read chapter by chapter there. Suggestion: read the New King James Version (much more easily understood as it is in modern English language, but if you do want a deeper and richer meaning to the verses you’re reading, try the Amplified Bible version). We are saved by the Grace of God and that’s where we should start. Start reading from ministries that promote the Grace of God and not legalism. God is not about condemnation but about wanting you to be terribly blessed! That is His heart. His heart is to love you, bless you and protect you in your time of need. Good place to start is here http://devotional.joepurcell.org/ from this page http://www.joepurcell.org/resources.html
Even though legally, where you are, it’s much more challenging for you to be a Christian, ask God to lead you and help you. You don’t need to have a Christian name to be a believer of Jesus Christ. So long in your heart you believe that Jesus is your Saviour, and that God gave Him up, God’s very best, for you because He loves YOU so much; you are already saved! Hallelujah! You are now received in the Kingdom of Heaven with the angels celebrating in your name!
God is not looking for outward action, He first helps you with an inward heart transformation. Bit by bit, day by day, you will find your life turning around for your good. (Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.)
Finally, i leave with you this, this is what God thinks of you.
Jeremiah 29:11
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Shalom,
Emmanuel
God bless u dude…i don’t know of a single malay christian man..u will be the 1st
Shalom to all,
Hi Shaktiar, I applaud your willingness and ability to distinguish the difference between race and faith. We would be a much more progressive society for the Malay community if we had more people like you. We usually get pigeon holed in society where if you are Malay it equally means you’re Muslim. There should be heightened social awareness for the practice of faith be it whatever race you are. Kudos to you bro.
Hi Casem, I know you’re in a tough spot where you are. Ask God to help you find a way out for your situation. The moment you believe that Jesus saved you from your sin past, present and future, then you already are a Christian! In your heart, God’s knows and identifies you as His child and He has reserved a place for you in Heaven. All the sensitive legal parts, leave to God to help you out with it. Read the Word regularly. Cos’ God will speak to you through His Word. His comfort to you stems from the knowledge of the Truth. Truth is there but it does not set you free. The knowledge of the Truth sets you free. Know that you’re loved by God and because of that love He will never forsake you. Psalms 91:14-16 speaks of how God will be there for you.
14 Because he has set His love on Me, therefore I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known My name.
15 He shall call on Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him, and show him My salvation.
You can replace all the he and him (small caps h) with your name, it this verse will tell you how God is there for you always.
Hi Jaque, you’re blessed! I’m another Malay Christian! Praise God! Hallelujah! Please check out my blog and stuff at http://1flock1shepherd.blogspot.com
Shalom Shalom,
Emmanuel
Brother and Sister
FYI Federation of Malay States laws or then Malaya laws, which later being included in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia, states that a Malay in West Malaysia is by default a Muslim. This laws is applicable in West Malaysia. It does not mention Malay for East Malaysiaan (Sarawak and Sabah).
For Brunei Darusallam the law states that Malay is Muslim.
Therefore Malay is Muslim in West Malaysia and Brunei. These law applies for West Malaysia and Brunei Malay. If you are Malaya Malay and Brunei Malay then of course your contention is that Malay is Muslim. Which is legally correct.
BUT you must have found out that Malay is not living in Malaysia or Brunei only. There exist the Indonesian Malay or Phillipine Malay. Their belief are diverse. Most Indonesian Malay are Muslim but Fillipino Malay are Christians.
Champa is a Malay stock in Cambodia and Vietnam. BUT the are few Muslim. They can choose their belief because there is no laws that forbid them to do so.
If you practise Muslim teaching then of course you will obey your Quran which forbid you from converting out from Islam. You Quran states that you’ll be killed if you convert out from Islam.
Else if you doubt Islamic teaching and your question your Quran then of course you Quran will not helps you. Your fellow Muslim may kill you perhaps but in this part of the world it rarely happened.
Remember there are many Arab Christian in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Israel, West Bank and Jordan.
Saudi Arabia law states that all Saudi Arabia Arab are Muslim.
Religion is a free choice. It is between you and your God. Religion is for all human. Your Race is only a politically and legally talking.
I believe the great commission does include all peoples, tribes, and races, because Jesus loves all the Nations of the World.
Sometimes, it is easy to be sidelined to other issues such as properity and the Gay issue even though the field is ready for harvest.
God Bless
hey brother of Christ out there,
I’m one of Malay convert to Christianity too! It’s awesome to see how God works in our daily life, and God make the connection through His Son, Jesus Christ, whom died for us while we are still sinners. Praise Jesus! As he died and rose again, His spirit is in us! God called us to be the children of God. He has a plan for us, and was mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah. Read Jeremiah 29:11 A plan to prosper and not to harm you, and to give you hope and a future. Awesome yea? That is the promise God gave us. I strongly encourage the rest to continue to read His love letters (the Bible), and meditate on it. Stay close with God. Pray in Jesus name yea.
And also for the non-believers out there who are still yet to be save, my Jesus loves YOU! and he really LOVE YOU. He loves you while you are still a sinners. I just wanted to make a request, give it a try to seek Jesus Christ yea. And see the different.
Hi Emmanuel, check out this preacher namely Shane Willard, http://www.shanewillard.org, he is a awesome with the Hebrews word.
And lastly, hear from the rest again ya, and can mailed me at raimyaki@hotmail.com or raimyaki@gmail.com. And continue to pray and encourage for one another yea as it is written is Hebrews 3:13
- But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
God bless to all! Shalom. God loves YOU!
peace be upon you everyone
hi! i came across this blog and i just felt i should say something. My dad was a chinese and he was christian before he came to islam. And he had told me a great deal about christianity. He told me as soon as someone learns enough about islam 90 percent they will definitely become muslim. And I have seen many christians converting to islam and have met them in the Darul aqam. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world by converts(go research on it). And especially after the 9/11 incident many more have converted to islam. I dont know of any muslims who have become christian. But from what my dad told me about the things that christians do just to make people convert,the deception(he knws because he was an exchristian). I just felt i should say something.I dont mean to offend anyone. I just want you to think just sit down and think. Study about islam! Read up on it from RELIABLE sources.
i suggest u read the book The Bible, The Quran and science by Maurice Bucaille. It is written by a christian who wanted to prove islam wrong but ended up converting to islam. Many christians converted in this way.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org
http://www.muslim-defence.com
http://www.muslim-responses.com
http://www.islamic-awareness.org
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com
http://www.islamic-answers.com
http://www.muslim-answers.org
http://www.answering-faithfreedom.org
http://www.religionofpeace.com
http://www.mostmerciful.com
http://www.answering-christianity.com
http://www.islam-christianity.com
http://www.sultan.org
http://www.harunyahya.com
http://www.shabirally.com
http://www.islamtomorrow.com
http://www.faithfreedom.com
http://www.understanding-islam.com
http://www.islamtoday.com
http://www.quranandscience.com
“Do they not ponder on the Qur’an? Had it been from other than God, they would surely have found therein many contradictions. (The Noble Quran, 4:82)”
and sgcamper the fact that u said that u have a relationship with God when u became a christian are u implying that muslims do not have a close relationship with God. If you are implying that then i feel sad for you because you do not know a single thing about islam. i will pray for you.
why did u delete the super long comment that i posted here? The one that i posted about all the websites that has the truth about islam?
by deleting the long comment that i posted you are only confirming my suspicions about your lies and deception. im disappointed in you.
Nobody deleted anything. I do not have power and access to delete your comments. Look above you… so many comments…spams included…. if i can delete…i would delete those as well…
Either you didn’t submit properly. Or you are just lying.
Anyway, its a christian blog. Why would you post something about islam?
But then you are free to do what you wish.
SgCamper, why do you become a Christian? Why not Buddhism or Hinduism or Sikhism or Judaism? Is it peer pressure? Is it the hip way Christianity is being spread in Singapore?
hey friends our there, we believed in Christ is because of His compassionate love towards sinners like us. It is not about a religion, but it is a relationship between us and God, Christianity is not a religion but it is a relationship between you and God. Why do we need to go onto other belief, where Christ is the truth and life? We have found God’s love, and His love towards human. Why is it hard for us to accept it? It is even mentioned in the Quran that Jesus is the way to Heaven, so I think there is no point of being in the state of controversy. And what more, Jesus loves you and He really loves you, He died and take away your sins. What further prove that you need?
I encourage you to seek Jesus, He will show you the way.
Hi Raimy,
I agree with you. It’s not about religion but about a relationship with our Abba. We can use a phraseology of this world to describe our Abba and that is: “Love is not love till you give it away.”
HE gave His very best away for us. His own beloved Yeshua. For who? For ALL of us!
It IS difficult to accept this Amazing Grace if we live our lives by the law of the word or by our own religiosity, just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day. It is also difficult to accept this Gift of Love if we live our lives through logic and reasoning of the human intellect, just like the Greeks of Jesus’ day. (1 Corinthians:18-31)
As we have people who come against Jesus and His believers, all we have to do is to pray for them. We pray that the love of YHVH will fall on them and envelope them with His warmth, assurance and abundance of Grace. We pray that Yeshua will speak to them in their hearts. For there is nothing that you and I can say that can change the way they feel and think about our LORD Jesus. It is ONLY Him who can do it.
Let’s not be in a theological debate about which faith is better or the Truth. Let’s be here to be the bearer of the GOOD NEWS, the mouthpiece to the LORD’s trumpet/(shofar) and the Lamp the LORD will use to Light the world.
Grace Grace to the Mountain! (Zechariah 4:7)
Speak from the abundance of Grace, unspeakable Joy, His Shalom upon ALL.
Be blessed always!
Emmanuel
“Surely goodness and mercy shall hunt me down(follow me) all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the House of the LORD forever.” Psalm 23:6
hi Emmanuel,
Awesome! Praise Jesus! I felt encouraged with your post, awesome! Continue to pray for the non-believers and our brothers and sisters in Christ yea. There is many out there who still finding for Love. I pray that God will show them the light, and open up their hearts to His son Jesus Christ. I pray for you that God will bless your desire and you will find favor in others. Let’s continue to stand from the victory of whom Christ have won 2000yrs ago, and not to stand for the victory.
Shall hear from you soon mate. I have mailed you before, but can’t remember when, yea. Continue to be the encouragement to others yea
Hebrews 3:13
But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
Shalom.
mikhail: Comment was automatically flagged as spam earlier due to excessive links in 1 comment. It has since been retrieved
SHALOM TO MY BRO N SIS’TA
AM EX MUSLIM AND NEVER FOR ONCES REGRET TO BE A CHRISTIAN……
BRO EMMANUEL-REZZA N SGCAMPER THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HONEST WORDS ON CHRISTANITY……..JUST FELT SAD AND FEEL SORRY FOR THE MUSLIM COMPLAIN ….
IN JESUS NAME WE PRAY
AMEN
Hi Guys..Love u all. Sooooo excited to find this blog.hahahaha… Im jumping high to find the amount of new believers in Christ in Singapore…My heart is pounding soo hard ….Yeah…..to Isa Al-masih..Bless His name…yeah…
Keep praying..keep proclaiming His Holy Name..yeah Jessssus!!!!
I’ve just came back from Singapore and for 5 years I have been searching for new believers in Christ…..I’m sooo excited.
Hahahahahah can’t stop smiling…It reminded me of this song
” Dia buka jalan
Sa’at tiada jalan
Dengan cara yang ajaib
Dia buka jalan bagi ku
Dia menuntun ku
Dan memeluk diri kudengan kasih dan kuasa nya
Dia buka jalan bagi ku..Dia buka jalan ”
I know that one day we will have an ex muslim church in Singapore…claim it guys!!!
Amen Zoe!
Let’s look forward to a Church where we can call our own.
Let’s look forward and not bear too heavily on our identity as ex-muslims but New Creations in Christ Jesus.
The Ministry that we would like to serve are those believers who came from muslim backgrounds.
Let’s call upon our Saviour, Yeshua HaMaschiach to reveal Himself more and more to our muslim brothers and sisters. Let Yeshua come to them in dreams and visions!
I CALL forth a mighty congregation from this community of ours! We shall blow the trumpet of the LORD to shouts of “Liberty! Liberty!” and “Grace Grace to the mountain of unbelief!”
For truly we shall ALL be in ONE Flock within ONE Shepherd!
Check out my blog entries too Zoe. It’s at http://1flock1shepherd.blogspot.com
Shalom Shalom,
Emmanuel
Amen Emmanuel.
I’m gutted that I didn’t get to view this blog whlie I was in Singapore. Hmmmm the Lords timing aye!!
I would love for us all…New creation in Christ..malay christians, to meet and claim a church in Singapore but it has to be end of the year coz I live overseas.
I visited your other blog and wrote (as anynonous) a short testimony in reply to Zaharan.
Lets pray unceasingly..I know you all do but from now on make it very intentional and lets claim our own church.
The Lord shines His face upon you lot and gives you His peace.
Love u lots….
Blessings
Zoe
Hi Mikail
what an awesome name!
I suggest you read the bible..trust me it is an AWESOME book. You will then realise where the Quran derives from. In the Quran, surah Mariam, it begins with ‘ According to the book…” This ‘book’ is refereed to as the bible. The prophet encouraged Muslims to refer and check out the bible because the Jews knows about the laws better. Check it out Mikail, you’re love it.
Contradictions…come on it is an old excuse!! Why don’t you find it out yourself by reading it aye?
As for me I have researched the quran, bible, Sahih Muslim, Ahmed Deedat and in the end…only by the work of God’s spirit that I understood them all and was set free by accepting Jesus that died on the cross.
I bless you in Jesus name.
peace be with you..precious precious Mikail..
Zoe
Hi Zoe!
That’s awesome! Would encourage you guys to watch this video from Youtube, search for Gulshan Esther; which from Muslim convert to Christian. She has been thru thick and thin, listen to her testimony, it’s very encouraging for people like us whom from Muslim converted to Christianity. I’m reading her book called The Torn Veil, awesome!
Well, hear from you guys again yea! May God bless you and leads you the desire of your heart!
Love raimy
Praise YHVH!
: )
It seems 2009 is gaining momentum in this area of Ministry. Let’s believe God that He will move at such an astounding rate and bringing our brothers and sisters back home to Christ.
It will be so miraculous that the only thing we can say, it is only Him!
1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
My prayers are with all of you.
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
His Shalom we have. It is in all of us! There will soon be more of us!
Amen!
Hi Raimy
I have read the Torn Veil before I became a Christian and read it 3 other times after. Hehehe.. I love to analize a book. Amazing!! The first time I read it, I wanted to know ‘this Jesus’ that came for her regardless of her faith and circumstance at that time. It was a revelation for me that Jesus is true and true “ALIVE”. Since then I fervently read and researched this Jesus and found him right thru the old testament (from the Hebrew italics), and it confirmed to me that HE is God.!! Halleluyah…
That book has brought many souls to light and I used it to give as presents.
Love u lots. Blessed His Holy name.
Zoe
That’s awesome! The book really encouraging, to see how God works in human’s life and etc. It’s a joy for me that a lot more muslim are seeking the power of Christ, and they changed by His love. Praise Jesus!
Hi Raimy
Are you the guy that plays the drum and sings worship songs on Orchard Rd??
Just curious coz I heard about this guy.
I’m so thrilled to have found u guys. My brothers and sisters in Christ, a crowd that I can relate to on a different level.
I love our family in Christ and to be part of a global family. Is it awesome to be a child of Jehovah.
Sooo amazing
Bless u guys
Hey Zoe
Nahh, I’m not the one.. I’m serving in Newton Life by the way, yea..
Maybe one day all of us can meet up and talk more abt God yea? It’s gonna be awesome yea..
Hi guys! Me too.. it has been since 1995(Sec 1) i’ve received Christ as my Saviour & Lord. I am pleased with the effort that you guys put into. You guys can find me @Embassy of Japan in 16, Nassim Road. I am still growing in faith, even today. Helleluyah!! Christ is living inside everyone of us here & we live for Him, so let’s not Despair. Believe in Jesus & I am proud to tell you guys that He has done Great thing for my life, Praying for you guys too…
I always thank our God as I remember you in my prayers, because I hear about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints. I pray that you may be active in sharing your faith, so that you will have a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ. Your love has given me great JOY and encouragement, because you brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints. Philemon 1:4-7
HALLELUYAH….HALLELUYAH……JESUS IS LORD
Pls ignore the message previously.
Whao. I was reading up on my bible, listening to my pastor’s sermons, doing up some bible-researching and I ended up researching on muslim-christian converts.
I’m really rejoicing because the Jesus’ death at the cross is becoming more and more rewarding and worthy.
I am sure all you must have gone through tough times with your disagreement families.
I know it isn’t good to ’showcase’ your respective churches names but I reckon Emmanuel to be from New Creation Church? Otherwise, I am even more happy that other churches are being more Christ-centred now, imparting the true scriptures in Hebrew and Greek. Which is …so, so, important!
I have been trying my very best to talk to some of my muslim friends into believing Jesus and they don’t have to live in legalism any longer. Just more hopes! Hopes in abundance and providence, and hopes which HAVE BEEN FULFILLED and will reveal.
Living in legalism is so tough. When I say legalism…I mean law. I was born in a buddhist family but my parents gave me the freedom to select my religious belief.
Back then, I was one of the Christian Christianity haters. lol. I am not like a full-fledge, bonafide Christian, not one who attends church every Sunday, but still, deeply loved, highly favoured, greatly blessed by the one I call ABBA.
I think this blog serves well not just to the group who were muslims and now converted to Christian, it also serves well for those who are facing contemplation in whether or not to start believing in Jesus. Its a testimony.
I am keen to set up a evangelistic group with people who are passionate in herding the lost sheep back to GOd, with focus on Jesus’ love for us. Let me know if you guys are keen to talk more about it. Do email me or add me on msn.
speed_fiona@hotmail.com
btw, the above post is full of grammatical or i should say, linguistic errors. I wasn’t aware of it until I posted it up. I thought that is editable. Well, as long as people can comprehend what I have been writing. Sorry!
Can i ask you all a question? How is it that the bible have so many versions, the most common which is the old testament and new testament. So which do ya’ll follow?
And if its the word of god, how come men are allowed to edit the bible? Knowing that conversions between different languages, ie from old greek/latin to english there are bound to be mistakes. this is man we are talking about, hell we make mistakes all the time! So what gives?
The bible does not state the month of the birth of Jesus, so who decided to make Dec 25 his birthday? and by coincidence it matches the birthday of Horus, the Egyptian sun god. So what gives? who decides? the Roman Catholic church? The Roman Empire?
The concept of trinity: god, holy spirit and Jesus. If the world is a kingdom, then we are led by 3 kings? Ever heard of 3 kings in a kingdom/dynasty? nyet!
peace to everyone
jesus(pbuh) was the way to heaven during his time so was moses(pbuh) during his time so was muhammad(pbuh) during his time so was all the prophets during their time.
yes i have read the bible before. thats how i noticed all the contradictions. Go read the quran yourself. The things that you all say really seem like you are not real “ex-muslims” either that or u totally did not knw anything about islam before.
Peace!have a nice life!
Dear ^The Reaper^,
You got lots of questions. And I got little time explaining here. Not that I want to avoid those questions, just that those questions have been asked 1001 times.
If you want, repost here again with your email or MSN. Will add you up and try to explain it. Another option is to go to your nearest church and ask the local pastor there.
Dear mikhail,
Where did you get that notion from? All Prophets was and is the way to Heaven? I do not know what sect you are from, but clearly from Surah 46:9 (Surah Al Ah-Qaf), Prophet Muhammad says he do not know where he will go when he die. Neither he knows where his followers will be too.
You know what? We are not ex muslims. We are born again Muslims who believe in ISA Al Masih who Himself quotes that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Have a nice life to you too.
How can I worship a man that shits,urinate and with no access power in my destiny?a MAN who had died on the cross for the sins i had commit??????Meaning im free from sins is that so????so what happen to the hell fire?Should be empty by now or the murtads shall fill up the space i suppose?
Hi Quesera,
I can’t believe your level of courtesy here in your comment. Do you speak this way to your Christian friends?
What if any of us made offensive comments about Islam and Prophet Muhammad here? How would you feel? I’m sure a flurry of Islamic Jihadists statements would be made.
Are your comments constructive in nature? They seem destructive, down right antagonistic and rude. If you are a representation of Islam, then it would be a much clearer evidence that we should not be believing in Islam.
There would be many such negative comments that I can say about Prophet Muhammad but i choose not to because it is not constructive, it does not glorify God in any way and it speaks badly for me being an epistle of the Word and a believer in Yeshua/Jesus finished work.
His Truth & Grace shine upon you. His Love embraces you, His Peace be upon you & your family.
Shalom,
Emmanuel
Dear SgCamperBoy,
Is there anything wrong posting answers here, yes its been asked 1001 times and all the answers i obtain are either contradicting or do not fill the void.
I am not looking for trouble or confrontation, just need the layman’s answers to the questions i posted to a person who gone through two faiths.
Funny, i asked the same questions to a bunch of teenage christian missionaries down in Orchard Road and they give me the stumped look. Hope you can fill me in withe better answers.
I will find more things contradictory about Christianity and post it here, Anyone enlightened, please feel free to answer.
PS: I read Surah Al Ah-Qaf 46:9, where is this line stating Prophet Muhammad says says he do not know where he will go when he die. Neither he knows where his followers will be too.
The Reaper,
Wow, not seeking trouble or confrontation but will find more contradictory things…Lol..
But it is alright. Ok then, I will answer your questions here if that’s what you want. But before I do that, Surah 46:9 you asking me where is it? It is there in the Quran. Funny that you are asking me again. Do read.
Now let me see what are your questions.
About versions. You mentioned Old Testament and New Testament being the obvious. I cannot explain much except to ask you do you know what does Testament means and do you know why it is Old and New Testament? So in regards to your first question, it is invalid because we read both Old Testament and New Testament.
It is the Word of God. And nobody’s editing it. Sure they are versions like NIV, KJV, NLVT, NKJV, NCV, Gideon etc but the content and writing is still the same. The only difference are how it expresses things. Its the same if you look at the Quranic translations. Pickthail may used different words to expresses certain things which may differ from another translator.
Example, God sends down wrath to earth. And, God sends His Judgment to earth. See, same meaning different words used. Of course if you want, you can always have the original Hebrew and Greek translations. No problem. Just that God’s Word is not confined to one language. It is His desire to see everyone being saved and able to read His Word and understand it with ease.
About Jesus’s birthday. True. ALL Christians know and they should know that 25th December is not a day where Jesus was born. Back then, it was a day where Pagans celebrated their “holidays”. The Church knows that the only way to win them is to also celebrate something with them. At the same time on that day, the Church always celebrated Christ-Mass or Mass of Christ. So they adopted that day and in a way not only they celebrate Jesus’s birthday but also able to win the pagans heart into believing in Jesus. Killing two birds with one stone. The issue is not about the date but in remembrance of His birth. We don’t see that day as a Holy day though. Just holiday. Haha
And Trinity. Ahh the thing that makes people confused. There is no 3 Gods. There is only one God who exists in 3 persons.
This is ridiculing God but I use the example of fire. Heat,light and the flame. Cannot be separated and must exist together yet there are one.
Or
We believe in Father God, Jesus as Word of God and Spirit of God.
I am sure you believe that in Allah and that Quran is Word of Allah and also He has a Ruh(Spirit). Remember He breathe His Ruh into Adam. Same thing. Sure it may not gives you a satisfactory answer but you get the idea.
So there. Brief answers.But I know you have more questions you are dying to present.
But all I can say is, Pray to Allah. Ask Him to reveal to you the Siratulmustaqim. The straight path. Isa Al Masih knows that path. He is the Kalimatullah and also Ruhullah…
Be blessed always. To you and family.
Regards.
hey my brothers and sisiters in Christ.this is my first time writing in this blog.i got to know about this blog from raimy.i’ve been a christian for four years already and im still growing in Christ.i was a muslim back-then and i’ve finished reciting the quran from start to finish.it is quite awesome to see quite a number of Malay-Christians in singapore.
i knew Christ while i was in australia in 2006 because my aunt stayed there and she is a malay christian .i was holidaying there alone to visit my aunt.i was a muslim when i first came there.initially,i was there for 3 months.my aunt and uncle over there start to talk to me about God and they showed me the Bible and i dont even dared to touch the Bible because this is for Christian only.everyday they talked to me about God,at home,in the car almost everywhere.because in australia,there’s alot of Christian channel on tv and also on radio.every sunday,they brought me to church and i close my eyes and slept in church.this is to show that im not into Christianity that time.and i told my aunt that i wanted to go back to singapore after 2 months there because in my heart,i hate going to church.what for?because im a muslim.so i went to change my flight date.but on the last 2 days before i came back,i was relaxing in my room one night and my uncle passed me a book titled,GOD’s promises.and i just open up and read the book.i was reading a lot of verses and i can feel tat some of the verses relate to me and i can feel it.and i read the book till around 1 a.m.and i off the lights and was about to sleep.and suddenly in my mind,i was askin a lot of question about the earth n about my life and suddenly i can hear voices and answers speaking to me.this is the most awesome time of my life.my heart was filled with joy,happiness and peace at that time.i was speaking to Jesus!!he came to me that night(read ACTS 5).i was talking and askin questions for about 20 minutes.it was awesome mate!and the next day was a Sunday and i went church and i was prophecised and i surrender my life to Christ!amen n praise God.Christianity is not a religion but it is a relationship with GOD.until now i am still being persecuted by my family but thank God for His strength that He gave me.im blessed and im still growing in Him.and i believed my family will be saved one day!and more unbelievers will know Jesus Christ!amen.God created us uniquely in His own image.our outer appearance colour is different but our blood is all the same colour.praise God that i can share my testimony with you all.its awesome.alryte guys,have a great day.God bless you!
Hi Nizam,
Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! What an encouraging testimony. You know, your prayers for your family will come true. Just like mine. Jesus came to my youngest brother in his dreams. This is without me sharing the Gospel to him at ALL! Nothing! Zilch! Nada!
Praise Jesus! Once He is in you, He IS in you. He knows your every wish and desire. He is also the Amen! (Revelations 3:14) So each time we say Amen, it’s a clincher!
Keep fervent prayer for our community bro.
We are here to glorify our Lord Jesus and Him only!
Isaiah 52:10 YHVH has bared His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
Jesus/Yeshua bared His arms to be pierced for the world to see and all the ends of the earth shall see the Salvation/Yeshua of our GOD.
You’re greatly blessed!
Shalom to one and all,
Emmanuel
To the Reaper & Mikhail.
God bless you if you r a seeker or trying to defending yr faith. In whatever we post, let us do it with mutual respect, grace and love. There are knowledge that we have picked up as we grow. We have the responsibility to make our own choice and decisions base on the knowledge that we have. Perhaps with more information you would be able to understand how Christians view on salvation and God. It is good you have opened yrself to learn more of God.
Most of the questions u asked are commonly asked by Muslims. From Muslims it is the truth the Quran is the only uncorrupted word from God but rarely they are taught about the contradictions in quran too. I would not want to post it here less this blog would become a debate which would lead to nothing.
Seek the truth and the truth will set you free.
To The Reaper and Mikhail, may I invite you to watch this video clip.
A great testimony by Muslim
http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/testimonies/testimony_afshin.wmv
Hell0, im a 14 year 0ld malaysian and i have also been thinking of c0nverting because after several enc0unters in my life. Hope 2 hear what u guys have 2 say.
hi Nadhirah,
It’s a good news come to your life, I supposed.
I was like an ordinary Muslim, but life begins after Jesus was introduced to me and He show me a lot of ways in life. Not only my own, but in others too.
And yea, not only myself, Jesus will show you ways too. I encourage you to look out books about Jesus, and you will find out more about him. Pray in his name for guidance yea, He will show.
And yea, if you wanna find out more about it, you can mail me at raimyaki@gmail.com. Hear from you soon, mate! Jesus loves you!
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Thnks Raimy. I’ll e-mail you soon. =)
salam. peace be upon you.
Your anology of trinity is confusing. Heat, flame and light are character of fire, which are inseperable. Exampe: You can be a boss, a father and a citizen ie one individual with three character, yet you remain a person. But God, Jesus and Holy Ghost are not character, they are separable person, they speak to each other.
Other exampe, you, your wife and you son is ONE family, but you are all diferent. You can’t replace you son in exam just because you and him are ONE (family). Holy Father is a god, Jesus is a god, and Holy god is god. Which god are you praying to? If all, then you pray to 3 gods. If only one god, then which one? It’s confusing. Furthermore, if Jesus died to save us because of love, why he protested to his Father?
Interesting point is the word and concept of Trinity did not exist during Christ time neither is Bible. It decided later in Nicea by groups of Christian denomition.
A faith/relationship can’t rely on love and slogan alone. It must be based on conviction. Look on what happening to the west. Euorope is axis of Christianity but Christianity can’t stop them to be material agonistic hedonistic individualistic nation.
Thank you
Khair
Hi Khair,
Am i right to say that your post is to emphasise that Islam is the True religion and that Allah is the Truth?
I can also have valid comments to make about Islam’s theology & doctrines, but i choose not to.
Are you also saying that Christian believers are not convicted in their faith? Because you mentioned: “A faith/relationship can’t rely on love and slogan alone. It must be based on conviction.”
If i’m not convicted that Jesus is my Lord and Saviour, then I won’t be called a Christian wouldn’t I? I wouldn’t be a believer then.
How you describe Europe as the axis of Christianity reminds me of something else that happened during World War 2 with regards to the term “axis”. Anyway, whatever perceptions that you have about Europe being materialistic, agnostic, hedonistic & individualistic are all like painting a broad swipe of black paint on everyone.
These terms to describe Europe does not describe the individual person who believes in Jesus Christ as his/her Lord and Saviour. I’m also wondering where do you get the statistics for such a comment?
I can also make negative comments about the Arab/Muslim nations, but can my comments be substantiated with statistics? Or possibly there are certain statistics that are not available in order to white wash such negative happenings in these nations. There’s always 2 sides to the coin.
So, let’s not make broad stroked, generalised comments about each other. Let’s come here to encourage one another. Let’s come here to share God’s Love to everyone on earth. Let’s come here to bless one another with encouraging and positive stories and testimonies to uplift one another.
Let us come with the Fruit of the Spirit:
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering(patience), kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Against such thing there is no law. We don’t have to be Christian to know that all this is true.
Let us love one another Brothers and Sisters.
Mark 12:31
And the second is like this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
Peace, Wholeness, Prosperity to you, Khair, and also to your family.
God Bless & Shalom,
Emmanuel
Hi, I’m a Muslim and I’ve been greatly touched by the attitude of Christians towards their Faith for a very long time alr.
I’m not ashamed to admit I have thought of converting, but I brought myself closer to my own religion and I’m not turning back.
I came across this blog as I was googling because I received this email that was maligning the Christian Community (I do not wish to elaborate on this email) but I thought that it was very inapt and very flawed in their argument and I am disheartened by the fact that many Muslims out there live in disapproval of the Christians and treat “Jesus” as a taboo whose name should not even be spoken of!
He is our Prophet, and he was the Word of God for a period of time, the very same way Moses, Abraham, Muhammad (pbuh) etc was. and i feel that Muslims have forgotten that.
I am deeply heartened with the attitude of the Christians, especially the one portrayed here, where you love everyone as equals, despite the difference in religious views. I hope more Muslims shall behave like this because God advises us to be loving too.
Btw, the Quran states this,
’strongest among men in enmity to the Believers will you find Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers will you find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men who are devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.”
(Al-Ma’idah 5:82)
I hope we can one day live in harmonious co-existence once again.
Dear Khair,
I, too, had a hard time understanding trinity. Then one winter day when it was very cold, the river was frozen but with patches of open water, and the sun was shining brightly, I saw.
Steam was rising from the ice floating on the river. I saw water, the solid…water, the liquid..and water, the gas. Three, yet one. One, yet three. Then I thought about the periodic table of elements. They all exist in three forms, liquid, solid, gas, yet they are one. Time is trinity…past, present, future. Man…body, soul, spirit. Each of these examples exist in a trinity, none can exist without the other, yet are “different” in…oh, I don’t know..expression?
The Bible teaches that God has not left us without witness…”For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” I see and understand trinity now through what has been made.
God bless you and your family Khair
hi everyone,
am used to be a muslim. was born into one. am now a christian. one of the reasons that i’m in the christian faith is because of love…and forgiveness.
i share the hope of zizie that one day we can live in harmonious co-existance…again. regardless of different faiths. peace to you all…
Hi Nadhirah and everyone do contact me if you want to consider Christianity if you are a Malay, I am the moderator for Malay Christian Yahoo Group for 5 years ! And has had many Malays converts who shared their experiences here in Singapore and Malaysia, Luckily in Singapore one can convert ( except for your relatives giving you pressure ) but in Malaysia things are different
There is more Malays converting here in Singapore albeit slowly but thankfully its all willingly and not by evangelical ways .
My email pulaukid@yahoo.com ex Muslim Singaporean now a Christian
Be blessed
Dan
Hey Dan,
It’s great to have this platform for Malay Christians to share about their journeys. I’m sure there’s many out there who think there are alone in their journey of faith, but with this site, they will discover that there are not alone and there are others too.
May this site will be a blessing to others and will be a great encouragement to them.
Thanks Jenn, I hope we could centralized a single Malay Christian sites to unite Malay Christians for support and advice .
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/malaychristians
Dan Jash moderator
I realise there are many confusion about the Term Malay, and I believed emmanuel had the discussion before and was quite clear, but let me add too that Arabs means a Race not religion too! There are prominent Arab Christians in the PLO ranks to Saddam HUssein 2nd man to Poets and Hollywood Actors and Actress ( Tony Shalhoub, Shakira, Salma Hayek, Kathy Najimi, Ellie Kourie,Paul Anka, Jamie Farr, Shannon Elizabeth , Tiffany Darwish the singer etc )
Many prominent pro 1967 Palestinian Borders are Arab Christians not Muslims.
So in Mid East Arab Does not Mean Islam and same goes for Malay does not means Islam
In any Historical Books or Colleges Country stats Philippines are 95% Malay and 5% Muslims
And all Philipino Language are related to Malay and off a Malay based dialect.
Because Philipino are mainly of Malay race
http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2008/jan/03/yehey/sports/20080103spo6.html
Besides his noble acts, Dr. Rizal was also known by his peers as a sportsman, having engaged and, in fact, excelled in fencing, a sport practiced at that time only by ilustrados inteligencia, along with such revolutionary heroes as Gen. Antonio Luna.
Not many know, however, that this native of Calamba in Laguna, was a judoka and, probably the first Filipino and Malay to have practiced and, in fact, taught the martial arts sport.
And may I add, all Christians in Arab world calls God ” Allah” also a derivation from Ela or Eloi it depends on your accents Canaanites or Arameans or other Semitics . Even in Malta where the local speaks Maltese Arabic alot calls God ALLAH, its God in Arabic Semetic Language, so I dont know why Malaysia having problem letting Allah be used in Bible.
Hi Dan,
Shalom! Liked your input on what is being Malay & Arab and also your frank input on Malays in the Philippines.
Just a little side track, you mentioned about Dr Rizal as a sportsman, fencer & Judoka. Are you into martial arts yourself?
Haha, Praise e Lord! Just being nosey.
I do have a slightly different take on the name Allah though. If you’d like a private discussion on this, maybe we could communicate via email: 1flock1shepherd@gmail.com
It would not be appropriate to have that discussion here.
Thanks.
Hope to hear from you.
God Bless,
Emmanuel
It really depends on how you want to interprete Allah it was a moon God or one God its all varies, but the root of the semetic word is actually The One as used by all Christian Arabs and Maltese.
Its like Ayah, Bapak, Bapa all variants depends on your county like Aramaic Ellah , Other semitic Eloi or SOuthern Semetic Allahth or Allah or Ella
No I am not a martial arts fella
I wish tho lol
Dear Emmanuel,
Salam.
Thank you Emmanuel for your encouraging word and I appreciate it. Allow me to respond to some of your comment:
You said “ Am i right to say that your post is to emphasise that Islam is the True religion and that Allah is the Truth?â€
My reply :When you try to persuade Muslim to accept Christianity in this blog, aren’t you also try to emphasize that Christianity is the True religion? (You may say that Christianity is not a religion neither a faith, but a relationship. You are free to use jargon and terms so but the fact is: Christianity is a religion that have theological and ritual aspect in comparison to Islam and other religions.)
Yes, Islam is the true religion and Allah is the truth. Why I said so? Islam preach oneness of God and consistent about it. This is what I call conviction. I will not be convicted when I see inconsistency in your concept of God.
TRINITY
Surprisingly, Islam and Christianity agree on many things including prophets, angels, the day of judgment, paradise and hell, but Trinity is the centre of our differences. That’s why I decided to comment about this doctrines and allow me to dwell on this topic because of it’s relevance to Muslims and Christians and truth seekers ( I know that missionaries are taught to avoid this topic with muslims ).
When you talk about the love brought and sacrifice done by Jesus without telling he is also a god that worthy to be worshipped in Christianity, this is a deception to average Muslims ( who you may intend to convert them ).
I would like to remind to my muslim fellow that embracing Christianity is not as simple as accepting Jesus as your saviour. You have to abandon your former religion, regard Jesus as your god apart from Allah, and doing things like eating pork and drinking liquor ( even though Jesus also prohibited it ).
Bro Emmanuel,
We have no problem to love Jesus as we love Jesus as one of our prophets. We are also God loving people. We only have problem when you to imply that in order to achieve love and salvation, we must accept Jesus as god. As Muslim, we never regard him as god.
Why, because Jesus himself NEVER call himself as GOD.
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)”
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said “I do nothing of myself”? Can’t GOD do anything he wills?
If Jesus was GOD, then why Mark 15:34 says “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”—which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus said “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 5:37 he said “And the FATHER who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard HIS voice nor seen HIS form,” Jesus and the GOD are different. People heard Jesus, but never heard GOD.
Therefore, lastly, but not least, let’s us go back to Allah.
ONENESS OF ALLAH
“Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (Al Quran, 112:1-4)”
REJECTION OF TRINITY
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. ( Al Quran 5:73)
CALLING TO CHRISTIANS
Say: “O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.” If then they turn back, say ye: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will) ( Al Quran 3:64)
ALLAH THE ULTIMATE LOVE
But your Lord is Most forgiving, full of Mercy. If He were to call them (at once) to account for what they have earned, then surely He would have hastened their punishment, but they have their appointed time, beyond which they will find no refuge ( Al Quran 18:58)
THE REWARD OF BELIEF
But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: “Why, this is what we were fed with before,” for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever). ( Al Quran 2:25)
For Allah is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good. ( Al Quran 16:128)
Thank you and peace ^_^.
Khair
Hi Dan,
Learned explanation. Praise e Lord! : )
Ok, point noted. Can’t be too hardlined about it. Understood. Thx for sharing. : )
God bless & Shalom,
Emmanuel
God formed the universe by His powerful Word.
God said, “You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
Man believed the serpent: “Did God really say…?”, and not God’s Word.
The same powerful Word that formed the universe cursed Man.
God will not trivialize His Word by arbitrarily forgiving sin!
God’s curse will not be stopped.
Fortunately, God loves us and wants to extend mercy to us.
Therefore, God sent His one and only son,
* born of a virgin, and free from the sinful nature,
* subject to temptation like us, but without sin,
* to suffer the curse on our behalf, although innocent,
that we who believe on him should not perish but have eternal life
hi all , back in 90s , theres a church in the east where theres a malay priest ‘fishing’ for malay kids around the neighbourhood to convert them.
he does this by giving them money and buy anything that they wish for. it was a big hoohaa as it creates discomfort among the malays staying around the area.
and still currently , the church is trying another approach by giving out christian flyers door to door (EVEN TO MUSLIM HOMES) . personally i think this kind of actions are unacceptable and unhealthy to the society. you dont wanna create racial disputes and hatred by doing such. so my fellow christian brothers and sisters, i hope you guys refrain attempts to invite or convert. like said spiritual journeys are personal. you dont motivate or promote your religion like such. peace.
muslim brother from the east
Hi Figa,
This blog entry by SgCamperBoy has been VERY popular. It has attracted many visitors. Christians and others as well. By visiting this blog, it is entirely your own free will. Are we then promoting our faith to Muslims or Muslims are purposely seeking out such entries like this to make comments like yours?
I probably think your comment on that priest from the east might be unsubstantiated and lacks factual proof and data. Are there factual proofs of such activity or is it based on hearsay?
Was the priest actually helping needy families? Could be. Would you accept charity from a Christian if you’re in dire need of help? Would I personally refuse the charity of a Muslim if my family is in dire need of help? Was that priest really doling out cash just to convert Muslim kids to become Christians? Maybe, but i think that’s pretty shallow.
Anyway, i think if that really happened, it would have been an isolated incident.
Next question would be, why would giving out Christian flyers be unacceptable? Is the individual Muslim home afraid that just by receiving a flyer, he or she reading it can be tempted and turned to Christianity? If that were so, then your statement would be made out of unnecessary fear. Why is it only that Christian flyers create such reactions like you have illustrated (unacceptable & unhealthy to the society)? How about Buddhist flyers? I’ve personally received some at my doorstep too. You also mentioned RACIAL dispute & hatred (very strong words indeed). Isn’t Christianity & Islam about FAITH not RACE? I have many Chinese friends who are Muslims too. So there are, of course, Malays who are Christians, Buddhists & Hindus too. I think it’s awesome that Faith has no racial boundaries! The journey of the spirit looks not to the flesh but the inner man.
Another point to note is that sharing the Gospel is part of the commission as a Christian (Matthew 28:19-20), how we go about doing it is another matter altogether. Understanding that our home country is of a multi-religious, multi-racial society, sensitivities have to factored in and be taken in good measure.
Jesus’ mission was always in love and charity. He healed the sick, delivered people from demons, opened the ears of the deaf so they could hear, opened the eyes of the blind so they could see, restore death unto life just like raising Lazarus because his family grieved him so, fed 5,000 people with 5 loaves & 2 fish and much much more. So was the ministry of Jesus after His ascension. Jesus’ disciples went forth into the nations of the world doing just that. No death and pillaging came from His disciples. So should the true believers of Jesus Christ be.
Our constitution in our home country provides for the freedom of religious practice. It is under the constitution part4 point 15(1), which states, “Every person has the right to profess and practise his religion and to propagate it.”
So one way of propagating our faith without being intrusive, would be via the internet or in the case illustrated, was flyers. The individual receiving the flyer at his/her doorstep can make the immediate decision whether to discard it straight away or read it.
The penal code of our home country also provides for offences relating to religion or race, which is under penal code chapter 224 point 298(A), which states, “by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, knowingly promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion or race, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious or racial groups;”
In this case, the flyers probably were not in anyway to promote disharmony, enmity or hatred. My household previously with my parents, have also received many of such Christian flyers but they were not in anyway to promote enmity or hatred amongst religions or races. They were promoting some concert, guest speaker or healing rally or whatever else.
So Figa, we are not attempting to invite or convert Muslims here. This is a place to share testimonies and ALL the good stuff that’s happend to us since we’ve accepted Jesus as our Lord & Saviour.
If you don’t like what you read here, just close the page right? You do have a choice you know. In the first place, why were you searching the net about Malay Christians or Christian Malays? What was your intention & motive?
I have mentioned here many times that the spiritual journey that an individual takes is entirely personal, but sharing the journey can be a public event isn’t it? To a select crowd anyway.
Since you visited this page, why not read it with a spirit to bless us on our journey, bless us with your love, abundance of heart and acceptance of who we are now.
Aren’t we all God’s creation? We all came from the same breath. In His love He created Man. That’s the Spirit of you and me. Human being is the flesh. God created Man and Man is the spirit in us which dwells in the flesh called a human being.
We are ONE in the huge family of Humanity. Let us look to each other in Grace, Understanding & Loving the neighbour as you would yourself(Matthew 22:37-40).
God bless you & your family Richly, Abundantly, full of Health & Wholeness! : )
Shalom,
Emmanuel
Hi Emmanuel,
I’m waiting your reply to my comment. Why it is not here?
Khair
Dear my malay brothers and sister,
If you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour in christian way, this is what what your sacred book will look like. Go and refer.
Song of Songs 8:1-3 “If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother’s breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother’s house– she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.”
She wished if he were her brother so that she wouldn’t have to take him home in secret. Now if he were truly her husband, then what would prompt her to wish that he was her brother? Were husbands back then not allowed to live with their wives? If so, how did they then consummate and have children and raise generations and societies? Were they allowed to live with each others for a while?
The obvious answer is that they were not a husband and a wife. And still, let us assume for the sake of the desperate and ridiculous argument that they were a husband and a wife, then what about her wishes about him being her brother?! What about this pornography? Are we now going to also argue that it’s ok for the sister to sexually fantasize about her brother, and to make inappropriate references about him like this?!
IS THIS THE WORD OF GOD???
Matt
Hi,
Please read this before it deleted by Emmanuel as happened to my friends who posted their comments here. Do you know that, in order to have Jesus as your saviour in Christian way,you have to regard him as a god, a partner to Allah, a package known as TRINITY.
BUT:
1- How can Jesus be GOD Almighty in the light of the following verses?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said “Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” The words “our God” indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn’t say “Your God”. He said “our God” which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.
If Jesus was GOD, then why did he ask for GOD’s Forgiveness in Luke 23:34? Please visit How can Jesus be GOD Almighty when he asked for GOD’s Forgiveness?
If Jesus was GOD, then why Mark 15:34 says “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”—which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
If Jesus was GOD, then did Paul say in 1 Corinthians 8:6 “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said “I do nothing of myself”? Can’t GOD do anything he wills?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said “My Father (GOD) is greater than I”?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said “Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit”?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 10:18 Jesus said “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.�
Also in Luke 18:19 Jesus said only GOD Almighty is Good: “”Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.”
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of crucifixion? Also see: Jesus’ crucifixion in Islam
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn’t reply when he was asked about the truth?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus said “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isaiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus? Also see GOD’s Spirit in the many others beside Jesus.
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can’t do a single thing of his own initiative?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?
If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in Hebrew 5:7 he prayed and cried for GOD to hear him and give him mercy by saving him from death?
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 1:18 he said “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the FATHER’S side, has made HIM known.” Where do you see Trinity in this Verse?
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 5:37 he said “And the FATHER who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard HIS voice nor seen HIS form,” Jesus and the GOD are different. People heard Jesus, but never heard GOD.
thank you.
Priest giving money is the most bogus story ever. Its so upsetting that Malay Muslim just cant except Muslims can accept Jesus as a saviour. In Islamic Text God is great, so meaning he does not need policing here and let Him judge.
Don’t be to concerned , go do charity at home or some social work.
I am willing to answers all question by Muslims if they want to have a peaceful debate in Public, and yes they can bring ALL the Ahmad Deedat books along, all of it.
Make sure you know Quran thru and thru and preferably understands Classical Arabic and MSA because I speak fluent Arabic speaking and Classical
Dear my muslims brother and sisters,
Christianity is like fast food; KFC McDonald etc.Delicious ( because of MSG ), fast, convinient, look clean and delicious. But the west are starting to reject fast food because it pose obessity and promote unhealthy lifestyle.
Christinity is like that. You accept Jesus as saviour, then you can do anyting sinful like adultery, homosexulity, idolatory,profanity and manipulation because you are ’saved’ by grace, not by good deed. That’s why chinese are becoming christians. They are free to go to temple, do their old stuff like eating pork and drink liquor. No major change.
At the beginning, it will give a tremendous good euphoric feeling of being saved without any practical responsibility, but at the end, it will make them restless and filled with the sense of unpurposeness.
It answers why in the west people are abhorring Christianity except for their name, christmas and some ritual when they want to get married or die. They are simply not practising christianity. Their ’salvation’ is unlimited individual freedom and happiness.
In the west, free sex is a norm. You kid will be considered a nerd if she is still virgin at 16. Furthermore, Where is in the world you can see kid shooting at school? in the west! ( the recent one happened in Germany, before in US, and it reported almost every week ). I can’t comment more because Bible itself promote and encourage free sex. Go to catholic church and you will think that you are in porn gallery looking to nude man and women. Instead of being spiritual, you became carnally aroused. No need to say, sex scandal of priest is well known.
Here in the east, we always given leftover, like outdated medicine which did not past the west quality standard of the west. The east become dumpsite of goods which are no longer allowed in the west.
In case with christianity, we in the west,are amazed by it ‘beuty’, just like we adore fast food, while actually it is an obselete jews cult deserted by the west because they are now giving attention to Islam.
Isn’t the west our former colonial? What good they did for us? Do they concerned about us before? Country like Christian Philipines is no better than Islamic Malaysia or Indonesia.
They are ‘conquestador’ or inquisitioner who forced their belief on the indigenous people and rob their natural wealth who did not leave a single muslim when they retook Spain. We muslim are liberator who liberate and stay with the people ( like in Egypt and Turkey where the major christian denomition still exist, Coptic and eastern orthodox ).
The east, with third world mentality still awed by the west. The reason: inferiority complex.
Syukri
Shalom Matt,
I’m very much disappointed that you posted such offensive remarks about our bible and quoted those verses out of context and not knowing what the book Song of Songs is all about.
I’m sure there are many of us Christians here who can also quote “ridiculous” or “perverted” verses from the Al-Quran and put it up here. But we don’t you see. Why? Because it doesn’t glorify God, it creates animosity and it would be in the heart and spirit of love to do so.
I hope you can refrain from making such comments here. I pray that you will receive God’s abundant love in your life and to really know and understand what Jesus meant when He said, “Loving your neighbour as you would love yourself.”
God bless you and your family richly & abundantly, health and wholeness be multiplied in your household. : )
Shalom,
Emmanuel
___________________________
Shalom Danish,
I can’t delete comments here because this post doesn’t belong to me. It belong to SgCamperBoy.
If you’d like to have a debate, i suggest you take it offline with someone like Dan Jash who has volunteered to do so.
I truly understand your point to prove to us that in your eyes, Jesus is not God.
But i’m sure that will not stop any of us from believing that Jesus IS God and our Lord & Saviour.
There are also many verses in the Al-Quran which we can mention to question Allah’s true nature, prophet Muhammad’s questionable prophethood but i choose not to mention them here. Because by doing so, i will not be respecting your scriptures, i will not be respecting your faith as a Muslim and by doing so i would have offended you personally. This would not glorify God. This would be contrary to His spirit of love.
There happens to also be a trademark pattern to Muslims quoting bible verses. It’s called, “quoting OUT OF CONTEXT”. Very prevalent in Muslim apologetics and debates with Christians.
Let me illustrate. Maybe i said something like this, “v.1 The sun is red in colour. v.2 It is red because there’s pollutants in the atmosphere. v.3 But the sun is not red in colour usually.”
Then somebody would qoute me, “v.1 The sun is red in colour.” and he’d make it a matter of fact. He obviously failed to quote verse 2 & 3.
I sincerely hope when you read the bible the next time, would you read it in context please. Start from the verse level, to the chapter level and then to the book level. That would be awesome.
Yes, Jesus is GOD, Jesus is also MAN, with GOD’s Holy Spirit in Him.
This is what I believe and in the context of loving your neighbour as you would love yourself; respect, self restraint and understanding would be a great mark of a good neighbour.
God bless you and your family richly & abundantly, health and wholeness be multiplied in your household. : )
Shalom,
Emmanuel
Wow. Just wow.
All the lies and misconceptions against Jesus….
Very sad.
Brothers and sisters of faith, do refrain from replying negative remarks unto others. That is not how God want us to be. We can debate all day, but the sad thing is we often forget the Message that God want us to relay to others.
I apologise to the Muslims if some Christians are stumbling blocks to you. But I do insist that you choose your words tactfully and do not pass comments which are not true like bible promoting free sex.
I am sadden to see all this comments.
But then again, Jesus once said, the world will hate us because we love Him first…
Clearly the prince of this earth has control of this world. But that will soon change. Maranatha….
Dear SgCamperBoy,
First, I hope you will have time to read this before it deleted.
Yes it is sad too.. when you try to convert Muslim to Christianity. Please go persuade other non muslim, Hindus, Buddhist, pagan etc. May be you choose your word tactfully, but your action is not.
We muslim never have misconception about Isa. He is good man. Never in Quran any mention of him in a negative manner. It’s christian who make him god, something he denied.
When I said that your Bible promote free sex, yes, it hurts. I will feel the same if somenone say Islam promote terrorism, for example, but mostly it’s misquoted from it’s perspective and I’m happy to answer from the text and proof from history ( you can always depend on wikipedia for info about islamic history ).
If you think that I misquoted the Bible, then explain to me.
Here are unfortunate proof of free sex in the bible, and needless to say it’s effect on christians nowaday with regard to sex.
Song of Songs 7:10-12
10 I belong to my lover, and his desire is for me.
11 Come, my lover, let us go to the countryside, let us spend the night in the villages.
12 Let us go early to the vineyards to see if the vines have budded, if their blossoms have opened, and if the pomegranates are in bloom— there I will give you my love. (have sex in other words!)
Clearly, the relationship was between a girlfriend and a boyfriend, and not between a wife and a husband. Otherwise, why would they need to sneak to the field to make sex when they have their home to be alone in? And worst of all, the Bible is ok with all of this throughout this book!
Let us look at Song of Solomon 8:10 “Dear brothers, I’m a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he’ll soon be satisfied.”
Let us look again at Song of Songs 1:2-4 “Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth– for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you–let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!”
I don’t think this would be appropriate for a kid under 18 to read. Also, I don’t think it is appropriate to have such open sexuality in a divine book anyway.
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:4 “Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother’s house, to the room of the one who conceived me.”
So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him? If she were married to him, she wouldn’t take him to her “mother’s house”. She would take him to their house.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:10 “How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!” Making love to his own sister? “pleasing is your love (making???) than wine”?
“How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince’s daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman’s hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
…….
I said ‘I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.’ May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine. (The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)”
Please accept my apology too
Syukri
Shukri I have answers to all of your post. But my advised to you is to read about the Quran inconsistency which I would rather email you in private then I putting an egg on your face.
You are a Muslim, so God is great alot of you chant, so why bother so much about Christian faith? Are you responsible for bringing us all to Islam?
The Arab caliph left the Arab Christians alone, and protected them. They were also Yemeni muslim bani Ghassn wer converted to Christianity ( some were Christians all the way ), but the Progressive Arab moslems then had no issue
I would love to reply to you here but will refrain from it and rather do it in private. Putting an egg to a muslim face here is not good for Singapore religious harmony.
I would also prefer your knowledge of Islam and Quran and Hadiths as high if not higher than Islamic Scholars.
We are here to support anyone who became a Christian be it from Budhism or Islam etc we no not polytherise Christianity to Muslims in Singapore, its illegal, and I dont think we do that. Personally I am not interested at all, everything came from God. Knock the door.
Hope to hear from you pulaukid@yahoo.com
You know Christianity main believes in Jesus is the New Testament. The ones you quote is part of the Bible from Old Testament but its mainly a Jewish faith sources. I personally view strictly New Testament and only old for historical or prophesies
Be blessed
Hi dearly beloveds,
I’d like to address Matt & Syukri at the same time. Both of you have excellent knowledge in citing Bible verses that might seem contradictory & perverted in nature. I’m sure you also know of such similar verses in the Al-Quran. I’m sure before quoting such Bible verses you would have considered similar verses in the Al-Quran.
But the question here would be this; have you applied the same principles of intepreting the Al-Quran and intepreting the Bible?
I say this because this is what Syukri has mentioned in his comment: “When I said that your Bible promote free sex, yes, it hurts. I will feel the same if somenone say Islam promote terrorism, for example, but mostly it’s misquoted from it’s perspective and I’m happy to answer from the text and proof from history ( you can always depend on wikipedia for info about islamic history ).”
Syukri, you mentioned that the Quranic verses were “MISQUOTED” from it’s “PERSPECTIVE”, essentially meaning, QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT.This is basically what you, Syukri & Matt, have done to our Bible verses.
It is clearly shown that when Matt quoted the verses where Jesus somewhat contradicts His divinity, all 23 Bible verses quoted by Matt were single verses and the CONTEXT was not taken into consideration.
Syukri however took another approach by taking a book from the Old Testament that seemed pornographic in nature and decided to use it for his argument. Syukri did a slightly better job by quoting 3 out 6 accounts with at least more than 2 verses attached to his illustration. But as we can see even those verses that Syukri quoted were merely a string of illustrative prose written by Solomon. This book, Song of Songs, has to be understood in its entirety. It is one of the rarest books in the Bible where the reader has to read the entire book and understand it’s historical background and why it was written this way. Many Christian believers would have been taught in church how to intepret this book one way or another. Let me just give both Matt & Syukri a heads up on the context of the book Song of Songs.
“The Song of Solomon(a.k.a Song of Songs), is a love song written by Solomon and abounding in METAPHORS and ORIENTAL IMAGERY. Historically, it depicts the wooing and wedding of a shepherdess by King Solomon, and the joys and heartaches of WEDDED love.
Allegorically, it pictures Israel as God’s betrothed bride (Hosea 2:19-20), and the church as the bride of Christ. As human life finds its highest fulfillment in the love of man and woman, so spiritual life finds its highest fulfillment in the love of God for His people and Christ for His church.
The book is arranged like scenes in a drama with three main speakers: the bride (Shulamite), the king (Solomon) and a chorus (daughters of Jerusalem).” – Extracted from chapter summary of the New King James Bible reference edition.
To address Syukri’s comment about the word “sister” used in this book, Song of Songs 4:9-10. As explained in the New International Version of the Archaeological Study Bible, the word “sister” in the context of these verses were a COMMON term of endearment in the love poetry of the ancient Near East.
This has also been confirmed by research done in the “Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament” by G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren, H. J. Fabry. This book has been used since the 1970’s in libraries and scholars.
It would be interesting to note if Syukri had read Song of Songs chapter 8:1 which says, “If only you WERE like a brother, who was nursed at my mother’s breasts!” The Shulamite woman was of course saying that Solomon is NOT her brother.
The words for brother and sister in the Hebrew is “Ach” & “Achoth” respectively.
In this context we can have a confirmation of the larger usage of these words “Ach” & “Achoth” which would not necessarily mean blood brothers & sisters, and is also used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance.
From this perspective then, we can read Song of Songs from the surface level where Solomon is expressing the joys of a wedded life and how exciting it is with all its ups and downs. We can also go deeper to understand that Solomon was inspired to write this book for it to be recorded and understood as a prophecy of the coming union of the Gentile Church with the Hebrew Messiah. The Shulamite woman is potrayed as darked skinned. Dark skinned women during the time of Solomon was considered unattractive and undesirable. Yet a king like Solomon favours her and falls in love with her.
The Gentiles during Jesus’ time were considered of a less godly nature just because they were not circumsised and did not adhere to Kosher laws. Because of this, socialising between Jew & Gentile were highly restrictive as the Jew is unable to enter a Gentile’s house and a Gentile is unable to enter into the Temple, etc. The Pharisees during those times had instituted the Laws so strictly that there was no room for Grace. But of course, Jesus came to abolish all this. That’s the reason Jesus came as Grace and Truth (John 1:17).
As such, we as believers can also see the parallels in our own personal spiritual walk where we, dark & blackened by our sin is still highly favoured and loved much by Jesus. He came to save us, as Solomon would probably have “saved” this woman from her life working in the fields and as a shepherdess and to a higher life which Solomon could provide.
Hallelujah! Praise the LORD. Thank you Jesus!
So Syukri, I hope you have been blessed by having this deeper insight into the book of Song of Songs.
I’m still some how glad that you’re still engaging us in this way. Reading the Bible be it for positive or negative reasons is still better than not reading it at all. : )
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
I know you love God, if not you won’t be here debating with us. And we are ALL called according to a specific purpose He has given us. And I know what transpires here will ALL work out for the GOOD! : ) Amen.
Matt & Syukri, be greatly blessed in your spirit walk from here on!
Shalom,
Emmanuel
hi emmanuel, i can sense some emotions going on with your reply. well i am certainly overwhelmed but i just needed to clarify somethings with you.
firstly, i am just sharing the concern which has been an issue for years.
secondly, NOT all malay muslims are open like you, yes u came out with your defensive statements and all , going on and on about the chances are chances not. but let me tell you this again, NOT all malay muslims are open like you and you have to understand that NOT all malay muslims are young adults who can go like its ok i’m fine with christian flyers on my door. just like a conservative christian, they would definitely be bothered if i place some flyer with arabic or Quranic verses on it.so vice versa, not all christians are open too rite? its the same feeling brother.
thirdly and the last. i know this blog for being the only singapore based malay-christian website so thats why i came here and raise the concern. anyway brother emmanuel, when i wrote that post, i didnt expect any replies, it is just a concern.the least you can do is to acknowledge, not to critic or judge my intention.
so now i am surprised by how much reactions it has for you. no offence but are you a priest or at least one of those who give out christian flyers? hehe.. peace.
your playful muslim brother
Figa, why are you so concerned? God is great in Islam and I am very sure he does not need any policing.
Hak memilih agama datang dari sesaorang , free will. This website does not poly to muslim and promoting any conversion. There are flyers everywhere in the world In Boston Muslims gave out flyers do you know that? Same goes to UK where Muslims put flyers on Christians doors, you heard any complain? No. Some people are excited to share their faith be it moslems or christians
Travel and looked around, ask questions the world does not revolve around us only.
email me and I will give you verses from the Quran which I want you answer. Cakap melayu boleh arab pun boleh mane mane you comfy, God willing.
Peace
Dear Emmanuel
Thank you for your reply.
I’m not a Bible scholar, but it’s not difficult to conclude that the depiction is NOT about a WEDDED LOVE as you said after reading it thoroughly.
Read song of solomon 2:14 “ O my dove, in the clefts of the rock, In the secret places of the cliff, Let me see your face, Let me hear your voice; For your voice is sweet, And your face is lovely.â€
My question: Why a person would fantasize such places to meet if she is married to that person instead of the comfort of home?
Again in chapter 8:1 “If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother’s breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother’s house– she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink , the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.â€
You said “The Shulamite woman was of course saying that Solomon is NOT her brother.The words for brother and sister in the Hebrew is “Ach†& “Achoth†respectively.In this context we can have a confirmation of the larger usage of these words “Ach†& “Achoth†which would not necessarily mean blood brothers & sisters, and is also used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance.
My reply is, if he was her husband, then why she wish that he was her brother? Is that because married couple were not allowed to stay together back then? Your explanation seemingly lead to other confusion.
The obvious answer is that they were not a husband and a wife. And still, let us assume for the sake of the desperate and ridiculous argument that they were a husband and a wife, then what about her wishes/incestuos fantasy about him being her brother?!
If this is not enough about free sex and adultery in Bible, please read Hosea 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
1:3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
God tells Hosea to commit ADULTERY, saying “take … a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms” because the land has “committed great whoredom.” So Hosea did as God commanded and “took” a wife named Gomer.
Again,according to your Bible, Moses tells the Israelites to kill every male and all the non-virgin females, but to KEEP THE VIRGIN for themselves.
Numbers,31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Don’t you agree that sex and violence in TV and materialized in the western society stemmed out subconciously from the the of Bible?
Yes, you can come with interpretation after interpretation( I know everyone is free to interprete Bible which lead to 33,000 christian denomition in the world! ), but it’s show that Christianity is not as simpe as accepting Jesus as your saviour. It’s seem that less is more.
Islam uphold the oneness of God, forbid free sex that lead to destruction of personal and society life and forbid killing of women and children.
Thank you
Syukri
Hi Brother Syukri,
Looks like you quoted me out of context and left the important parts out.
Let’s address your second point first about Songs 8:1.
How come you failed to mention what i said here: “To address Syukri’s comment about the word “sister†used in this book, Song of Songs 4:9-10. As explained in the New International Version of the Archaeological Study Bible, the word “sister†in the context of these verses were a COMMON term of endearment in the love poetry of the ancient Near East.”
I stress again: A COMMON TERM OF ENDEARMENT in the love poetry of the Near East.
You mentioned: “My reply is, if he was her husband, then why she wish that he was her brother? Is that because married couple were not allowed to stay together back then? Your explanation seemingly lead to other confusion.”
Answer: A COMMON TERM OF ENDEARMENT in the love poetry of the Near East.
And it is not MY explanation. You quoted me out of context again.
My reference as mentioned in my post is: “Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament†by G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren, H. J. Fabry. And this book has been used by many scholars since the 1970s.
You also mentioned: “The obvious answer is that they were not a husband and a wife. And still, let us assume for the sake of the desperate and ridiculous argument that they were a husband and a wife, then what about her wishes/incestuos fantasy about him being her brother?!”
Answer: It is not a desperate and ridiculous argument. The point proven is based on a scholarly work. Refer to previous answer. Again the term “Ach” & “Achoth” is used as a literary term of endearment between husbands and wives in love poetries of the Near East.
*Let me ask you this, do you call your wife by pet names? Honey, baby, sweety pie, sugar plum etc? I do call my wife “baby” but is she literally a baby? No of course not. When i call my wife “honey” is she literally honey? Of course not. Then the same can be said about the use of such terms as “Ach” & “Achoth”. Same can be said when i address you as Brother. Are you literally my blood brother? Of course not, but we’re Brothers in Humanity, Brothers as the created ones of God.
How about Songs 2:14 then(O my DOVE, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.)? Solomon was referring to the Shulamite woman as a “DOVE”.
Or you missed that altogether? And where does a dove hide in the midst of a storm? In the clefts of the rocks(rocky hills). It is the refuge of doves from storm and heat (Jeremiah 48:28; Jeremiah 49:16). It is an allegory: a symbolic narrative. He that is powerful as king, seeks a dove who is afraid and hiding in the rocks from the heat of the day or the storms of the seasons.
You asked: “My question: Why a person would fantasize such places to meet if she is married to that person instead of the comfort of home?”
Even if we were to take Solomon’s proposal in Songs 2:14 as a literal thing, let me then ask you this. Are you married? If you are, then, have you ever not planned a romantic getaway with your spouse? Must the romantic courtship of a married couple be restricted to the four corners of the home? Just a point to ponder on.
You mentioned: “Yes, you can come with interpretation after interpretation( I know everyone is free to interprete Bible which lead to 33,000 christian denomition in the world! ), but it’s show that Christianity is not as simpe as accepting Jesus as your saviour. It’s seem that less is more.”
I did not interpret the bible in my own way. I intepreted the bible according to how the bible interprets itself (referencing from 1 book to another, as done in Songs 2:14) and also in its context of history and ancient culture.
I will not comment though on the similar divisions in Islam with regards to the different denominations (Madzhabs/schools of jurisprudence) and also factions inbetween Madzhabs.
And Christianity is as simple as accepting Jesus as Lord & Saviour. That’s what happened for me personally anyway. My life has been transformed. My friends know it, my family knows it.
As for Numbers 31:17-18 did you understand the context of the verses? I am not whitewashing the bible. There are many accounts of bloodshed. Some of which are really hard to understand. But for this case in Numbers 31 i urge you read this detailed study and research on this most commonly quoted sanctioning of “genocide” by God on the Midianites.
Here is the link: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/midian.html
You also mentioned: “If this is not enough about free sex and adultery in Bible, please read Hosea 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
1:3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
God tells Hosea to commit ADULTERY, saying “take … a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms†because the land has “committed great whoredom.†So Hosea did as God commanded and “took†a wife named Gomer.”
The background and context of Hosea was that he initially delivered his message of doom orally to the nothern kingdom of Israel. There are 3 major themes to Hosea.
1. God’s faithfulness, mercy and unfailing love.
2. Judgment for sin.
3. Repentance and restoration.
In context of our discussion, i’d like to elaborate on point 1.
But first let me clear up what you said about God telling Hosea to commit adultery (in big caps as you have illustrated).
God did not tell Hosea to commit adultery. In a prophetic word from God, He instructed Hosea to marry Gomer, an unfilial woman(Hosea being the obedient servant, did so). Because Gomer cheated on Hosea later after her marriage to Hosea. As shown in Hosea 3:1-5. She became a slave to her paramour/lover, therefore Hosea had to redeem her via a payment (v.2).
The children of Israel were again falling into idolatry. Therefore, whenever the children of Israel falls into idolatry, it is like them becoming whores.
And like God’s faithfulness, mercy and unfailing love, Hosea’s unfailing love for his adulterous wife represents God’s relentless love for the faithless Israelites as illustrated in Hosea 1:2 itself (God marrying the whoring people of Israel), 2:19, 6:6, 10:12 & 12:6. In fact, God’s covenantal relationship with His people is likened to the intimacy experienced in marriage and also illustrated in Hosea itself in Hosea 4:10-19, 5:3-7, 6:10, 9:1; reinforcing the theme of God’s passionate devotion to His people.
To make a confirmation on the word whoredom illustrating idolatry is in the original Hebrew text itself. The original word used in Hosea 1:2 for whoredom is “Zanun”.
“Zanun” as explained in the Strong’s Concordance is: from the root word “Zanah” adultery; used figuratively as idolatry: – whoredom.
We can see similar use of the word “Zanun” in,Ezekiel 23:29-30:
29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms(ZANUN) shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms (TAZNUTH/also meaning IDOLATRY in the figurative speech).
30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.
We ALL can agree that free sex is wrong. We don’t need any faith or religion to tell us so. But it seems you are pointing the finger at the bible as the SOURCE of the problem free sex, as you have mentioned here: “Don’t you agree that sex and violence in TV and materialized in the western society stemmed out subconciously from the the of Bible?”
If you had read Hosea in its entirety, you would know that it’s not about teaching people to have free sex and go into adulterous relationships.
Isn’t your statement a broad sweeping, stereotypical statement? When you mean western you are talking about a culture, subculture created by America, the UK, France and the likes right? So are ALL adulterous relationships in America for instance, committed by Christians?
You also mentioned: “Islam uphold the oneness of God, forbid free sex that lead to destruction of personal and society life and forbid killing of women and children.”
Yes I understand Islam upholds Tawheed, so do we Christians believe in a monotheistic faith. We believe that we have only 1 God. And His name is YHVH. And Yeshua is also YHVH. And Ruach HaKhodesh is also YHVH. But i’ll not go further into discussing the triune God nature of YHVH because it will be a discussion until, literally, His Kingdom come. : )
But what I do can address is the second part of your statement (…forbid free sex that lead to destruction of personal and society life and forbid killing of women and children). That would be the UTOPIC state that Muslims like yourself would wish for.
But are we all ready for a reality check?
I’m not saying that Christians have NEVER done anything evil and wrong. I’m saying it happens. And i’m not saying it will NEVER happen because that would be a lie.
So, being in the fashion of good neighbourliness, we should all look at our own dirty laundry first before we comment on our neighbour’s dirty laundry.
Are you ready for your own reality check? Could you please visit: http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/index.htm
Yes, whatever shown on that website may seem extreme. You might say it’s not the true Islam you know. But that’s the reality, all those things are happening under the banner of Islam.
Same can be said about your statements about the deplorable moral values of the “west” because Christianity caused all that moral decay.
So Brother Syukri, let us all come here to bless each others Spiritual Journey. For mine, I have found fulfillment, love and peace in embracing Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. For you, probably the same can be said, you found fulfillment, love and peace in embracing Islam. There goes, you are blessed! I am blessed! We recognise the good in each other rather than keep amplifying the speck of dust that’s on that huge piece of white cloth. : )
Shalom Shalom my Brother Syukri.
Peace, Love, Abundance of Joy, Health & Prosperity to you and your family. : )
God bless you Bro,
Emmanuel
Hi,
Comments are never deleted. but are occasionally accidentally marked as spam by the automated system.
If you’re comment is not appearing, feel free to drop an email to tedfox@gmail.com
I’ve restored a couple of comments caught accidentally as spam
Hi Khair,
Sorry i missed your comment. I think it’s one of those comments that didn’t get posted, then reposted as mentioned by TedFox on Apr 12 2009 12:40am.
Uh, just read it. Ok here goes. : )
You mentioned:
“When you try to persuade Muslim to accept Christianity in this blog, aren’t you also try to emphasize that Christianity is the True religion? (You may say that Christianity is not a religion neither a faith, but a relationship. You are free to use jargon and terms so but the fact is: Christianity is a religion that have theological and ritual aspect in comparison to Islam and other religions.)”
Reply – I’m not persuading Muslims to become Christians here. Also, all i’m saying here is that Jesus Christ is my Truth. Whether He’ll be yours or not is not for me to answer and not for me to intrude. The question that begs to differ is why Muslims are here reading this blog when it is for Christians who happen to be Malays. Since this post by SgCamperBoy has been visited by Muslims, we most welcome you. And when you do have a comment, we would have the opportunity to share certain things with you. It is because of the inadvertent interaction that has happened because of Muslims visiting this post, therefore we have to share with you the perspectives of our faith, which is Christianity. I’m sure if you have a blog for Muslims, and Christians visited it and made some comments, either positive or negative, you would also take the opportunity to enlighten that person right?
Yes, we can say that Christianity is a religion by default that it has God involved, people believing in a God and what that God can do for them. But what goes deeper? What holds that Christian believer together? It is that relationship with God that the believer has.
Of course Christianity has it’s theological aspects also. But does theology promote faith? Theology is all about the study of GOD, ALL kinds of gods. Head knowledge is good. But will it have a life transforming effect on a person? Will he have a revelation of God’s love in his life?
Yes, certain Christian denominations practice certain rituals, but does rituals promote faith or just blind adherence? What is truly behind all those rituals? What are they believing in?
That is truly the core of our faith, and that core is knowing that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour, He died for me, for the sins of mankind and He has redeemed us all on the cross of cavalry.
You mentioned:
“Yes, Islam is the true religion and Allah is the truth. Why I said so? Islam preach oneness of God and consistent about it. This is what I call conviction. I will not be convicted when I see inconsistency in your concept of God.
Reply – Am I inconsistent in our concept of God to say that YHVH is triune in nature and He always seeks to have a relationship with us? Christians are also believers of a monotheistic God. His name is YHVH. But as i replied to Brother Syukri, it is best that we don’t continue in our discussion about the triune nature of YHVH versus the Tawheed of Islam because this discussion will literally not end till His Kingdom come. : )
You also said, “I will not be convicted…”, nobody here is trying to convince you of anything. Especially for me. All my replies are just based on what the bible says about God and my own views and perspectives of my faith. Nobody here is saying to you to stop believing in Islam, abandon your faith and become a Christian. That would be really silly on my part and also very childish. Your spiritual walk is entirely your own. How your experience your spiritual fulfillment, peace, love and joy is entirely your own journey with God Himself.
You also mentioned:
“TRINITY
Surprisingly, Islam and Christianity agree on many things including prophets, angels, the day of judgment, paradise and hell, but Trinity is the centre of our differences. That’s why I decided to comment about this doctrines and allow me to dwell on this topic because of it’s relevance to Muslims and Christians and truth seekers ( I know that missionaries are taught to avoid this topic with muslims ).
Reply – Yes i agree on all above said points. Yes, it seems that the dividing point is the Trinity.
But i beg to differ. I PERSONALLY see the divide as, how Muslims see Jesus. I see Him as my Saviour. I see Him as the One who redeemed my spirit and that I WILL go to Heaven. I see Him as my God, the God YHVH who came down to dwell amongst His people, to know them, to symphathise with them, to cry for them.
And it is also not so much about whether Jesus is God or not.
It is about Jesus as THE SAVIOUR. He SAVES. GOD SAVES. SAVES me. And me only. That’s why He’s so personal.
Also, you mentioned that you know missionaries who avoid talking about the triune nature of YHVH when they speak to Muslims. Have you had a personal experience and know of such missionaries/evangelists? Or is all this based on hearsay?
You also continued:
“When you talk about the love brought and sacrifice done by Jesus without telling he is also a god that worthy to be worshipped in Christianity, this is a deception to average Muslims ( who you may intend to convert them ).”
Reply – If I told you that Jesus came down to earth by God’s love and He was sacrificed for you and I to save us and assure us of a place in heaven without us needing to do anything but just to believe in Him, but He is NOT God.
1. Would you believe in Him? That by Him and Him only you can go to Heaven?
2. Is He still then worthy of worship?
I’m sure you’re familiar with the principle of “Taqiyya” in Islam right? I’ll not dwell on this, but i can also use the same word that you used about concealing Jesus divinity to the unknowing Muslim according to what you have said.
When you said, “When YOU talk about love…” Are you referring the YOU to me or the YOU to the missionaries/evangelists etc? If i’m assuming the YOU is referring to me, then i believe I have always shared openly that Jesus is GOD. I’m not hiding that Christian Truth.
You mentioned:
“I would like to remind to my muslim fellow that embracing Christianity is not as simple as accepting Jesus as your saviour. You have to abandon your former religion, regard Jesus as your god apart from Allah, and doing things like eating pork and drinking liquor ( even though Jesus also prohibited it ).”
Reply – When let’s say a Christian who falls out of faith then embraces Islam and acknowledges Allah as the only One true God and Muhammad is His messenger, as recited in the Syahadda, isn’t he “abandoning” Christianity and embracing Islam?
Wouldn’t it be true otherwise?
Anyway, a person who becomes Christian does not have to say anything to become a believer. The sinner’s prayer is just a formulaic outward declaration of faith, so goes the same for the water baptism. A person does not have to do either to become a believer in Jesus Christ. God sees the heart, not the mouth, nor the outward actions. And yes, that individual, at the very moment he believes that Jesus is his Saviour, he has decided to be set apart, to be among those that believe that God saves and has immediately declared a place for us in Heaven and our sins have been forgiven us eternally. If you want to define that as abandoning the former religion, then yes. Because that individual has decided to live a life that is different than what he has previously believed in. In Christian speak, it’s called “Born Again”.
With this particular comment, you made a broad sweeping assumption that as the individual leaves his previous beliefs, he has now to start eating pork and drinking liquor by default just because he is now a Christian. No Christian is forced to eat pork. No Christian is forced to drink liquor. I know some Christians, who by personal choice don’t eat pork because they just don’t like it. They also don’t drink liquor because they don’t like it. The adherence of Kosher laws were abolished after Jesus went to the cross. Because then the Holy Spirit was given so that for those who believe, He shall be in them bearing these Fruits of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, SELF-CONTROL; against such things there is no law.
A good example was myself. Before i became a Christian i drank so much alcoholic drinks! I liked getting drunk. Well, you might say, “There you go! You were never a practising Muslim.”
But that’s not the point, the point is this, though i know i don’t have to adhere to the Kosher laws anymore (similar to Halal laws for food & beverages etc.), i have the restraint in me not to want to drink alcoholic drinks so much. In fact, now, i hardly drink. Very very rarely. Even if i do, it’s fairly social and with much self-control, Praise the Lord.
There are also Jews who now believe in Jesus as their Saviour(Messianic Jews). Some of them still adhere to Kosher laws, either out of habit or religious conviction. But whatever it may, it does not make them any more holy than the average Christian or the average Christian more un-holy than these Messianic Jews.
Well Bro, that’s pretty much about some misconceptions of how a new believer of Jesus Christ is perceived from the Muslim perspective.
For the rest of your comments and bible references about Jesus referring Himself to NOT being God and not having any power at all, i think you can find the answers all over the internet. You might want to check out: http://www.answering-islam.org/
Of course it’s gonna be hard for you reading some of the stuff there, but if you want answers, you gotta open your perspectives also. Get the stories from both sides of the coin if you could.
Also, maybe just a point to note. It’s good that you have read the bible and can quote from it. But it’d be better if you can quote the verses in the context those verses were meant to be in. For example not just quoting 1 verse, but the verse clusters. Contextual reading is a skill but it requires patience. Sometimes the context is within a few verses, sometimes the context is in the entire chapter, sometimes the context is in the entire book. So i urge you to try and do that if you have not done so.
Thanks for sharing those verses from the Al-Quran. I’ve also read some of the verses you have quoted and i’ve also read them in its context, especially Al-Quran 18:58 which you headlined as “ALLAH THE ULTIMATE LOVE”. I’m sure you have also read it in the context starting from Al-Quran 18:57-59.
I thank you for your earnest time and commitment to your faith and being here as a contributor to this particular blog entry by SgCamperBoy.
I have been blessed myself many times just by going to the bible and researching stuff that i’ve never read before just to post up the replies here. Inadvertently these comments by you, Matt, Syukri and the rest of my Muslim Brothers and Sisters have indeed become a blessing for me.
Let’s bless you with a blessing from God Himself.
Numbers 6:24-26
24 The LORD bless you and keep you.
25 The LORD make His face shine upon you and be gracious unto you.
26 The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.
God bless you and your family richly and abundantly! : )
Shalom Shalom,
Emmanuel
Whoa there’s a debate going on here and I’m feeling left out. Haha. Anyway I hate to say this to “some” people:
1. This is just a website.
2. It is inhumane to stop others from believing what they want to believe(as in faith, religion……)
3. No one is forcing other muslims to convert to christianity.
4. The story about priests “fishing” muslim kids to be christians is a total bullshit because there isn’t any prove.
5. “You guys” are just wasting your time here. Why bother google about this if you don’t like seeing other Malay muslims being a christian?
6. Stop being stereotype. There are many Indian & Chinese people who are muslim, buddhist, hindu, christian and etc.
7. “Malay” is just a race. Look at the malays in Phillipines, most of them are christians but there are some of them who are muslims and etc.
8. Lastly, stop critisizing about christianity. You’re wasting your precious time.
Ps. sorry about my harsh words. i just dislike narrow-minded people.
Dear Nadhriah,
You may find this coming from narrow-minded people, but what I have written are fact ( as I may considered it ) from your Bible. If what I said was wrong in your opinion, it will strengthen your faith, right? But if what I said is true, it is your opportunity to rethink. So, both ways will serve you good.
I may harsh in my approach, but I don’t bullshitting and accuse people as narrow minded. I appreciate Emmanuel argument, that’s why I continue this discussion and I believe he appreciate mine too.
1. Yes this is just a website, but it opens to public viewers including Muslims. Make this website as private, I won’t interfere.
2. I don’t stop anyone to convert to christianity. I just can’t.
3. They are not forcing anyone to convert, but they strongly encourage it. It’s not healthy in this region.
4.To the question why I googled this website, my answer is, out of sense of responsibility to explain the unknown facts of Christianity and misconceptions about Islam by some Malays. As I said earlier, embracing Christianity is not as simple as accepting Jesus as your saviour. Remember that when the thing is too good, it’s not good.
5. Your faith is your personal business with god, but declaring to be christian, to be practical, will not be easily accepted by your family, society and law ( Malaysia ). It’s not a perfect world anyway.
6. Malay is always positively associated to Islam. It defines Malay unique identity.
You are young and have a lot of things to discover.
Syukri
Syukri
Hi Emannuel,
Thank you for your reply. I also would like to thank Tedfox to be gentleman enough to let me post my comment here.I think you have to be patient with me if I don’t understand your points. First, English is not my mother tongue and Bible is not my book
in chapter 8:1 “If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother’s breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother’s house– she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink , the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.â€
You said :How come you failed to mention what i said here: “To address Syukri’s comment about the word “sister†used in this book, Song of Songs 4:9-10. As explained in the New International Version of the Archaeological Study Bible, the word “sister†in the context of these verses were a COMMON term of endearment in the love poetry of the ancient Near East.â€
Fine, let try this conclusion:
1. They are not brother and sister in blood, the word ‘brother’ is just a term of endearment.
My comment: even they are not brother and sister in blood, there is no mention that they are legally husband and wife. There are words like my dove, my beloved, my brother but none of any mention ‘my husband’. Furthermore, the verses said ‘ If you were to me like a BROTHER, WHO WAS NURSED AT MY MOTHER’S BREAST’. Clearly here, ‘brother who was nursed at my mother’s breast’ is referring to blood brother. My question is: why a wife would hope ( of fantasize ) his husband to be like her blood brother who was nursed at her mother’s if they are legally married? Clearly, they are not married couple.
Well,It’s still confusing and there will be more ‘ you said that I said that you said that I said’ until the coming of the messiah
. For me and many, the expression still pornographic in nature and promote sex romp.
If my opinion is not enough, read what an American parent says about Bible: There’s far too much sex and violence available to our children today. Appropriate steps must be taken to shield our young ones from these dangerous influences. Fortunately Congress and the President have signed into legislation a bill allowing parents to block sex and violence from their television sets. It’s called the V-Chip, and it lets parents put an electronic lock on the tube.
Unfortunately the V-Chip doesn’t go far enough. For sex and violence permeate much more than our TV sets. It’s in our schools, our libraries, our homes, and even in our churches. And not only is it available in all these places, it comes to our kids through the very books we want our children to read. And even more unfortunate is the fact that one of the WORST OFFENDERS is OUR BELOVED BIBLE. ( the capitalization is mine )
But it’s true. It’s also rather amazing that this source of negative influence on our children has been overlooked for so long. A considerable amount of effort has gone into banning such books as “The Diary of Anne Frank” for its author’s sexual comments, and the “To Kill a Mockingbird” for its discussion of violent rape. Many other books have rightfully been banned or exposed for their violence, murder, and cruelty — all things we must keep from youthful eyes. And yet the Bible, full of the very same demented activity, has yet to be exposed.
To see his personal Bible list that contains more porn and violence, click here:
http://www.elroy.net/ehr/vchip.html
Well,I wonder how you are going to rationalize all these facts sinceI believe you will come with more rationalization. But it does it mean that it’s true and correct.
Just like the rationalization of Inquisition, slavery, Holocaust, Crusade that were executed with ‘good’ reason at the beginning. The fact is, it still WRONG that finally Pope openly admitted the mistake apologized for it.To read more about pope apology, click
http://www.bibletoday.com/archive/popeapology.htm
My point is rationalization alone is not enough to support your claim about Bible’s innocence of porn and violence because it’s subject to uncertainty and other people will come to the opposite rationalization. It will be never ending process.
Now, by using Bible standard of judgment, let’s look at the fruit or the result of Bible teaching to have the final verdict.
Matthew 7: 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matthew 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the TREE IS KNOWN BY ITS FRUITS.
Luke 6:44 “For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.
James 3:12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh.
If Bible is a tree, Christian are the fruits, right? If you want to know the true colour of Bible, look at the action of Christians who are the reflection of their Bible. Now look at Christians atrocities throughout history.
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-missionary-atrocities.html
http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html
History does not lie and does not need rationalization. History is the fact/truth who speak itself. The fruit that Bible produces ( Christians ) show that Bible indeed promotes sex and violence. Therefore does not fit to be the word of God and does not have legitimacy to claim the divinity of Jesus.
Thank you
Syukri
Hi Tedfox,
My comment to Emmanuel is not appearing. Can you fix it?
Thanks
Syukri
Hi Brother Syukri,
God bless you on your wonderful spiritual journey. I’m most impressed with your fervor for Islam. Keep it up. A true seeker of the Truth is seen in your heart. Let us pray that this seeking is also in search for PEACE within and without.
Let us also pray that there will be reconciliation between the spiritual seeds of Isaac & Ishmael.
Let us also pray that Jesus the Messiah (Isa Al-Masih as mentioned the Al-Quran) will manifest in our lives.
The word Messiah means Savior. Let Him be the Savior of my life. And for you Allah will be your Savior, refuge and strength.
The world is One. Unity in diversity. We cut, we bleed the same crimson tide. Let us learn to love one another. Let us live with respect, honour and integrity to our beliefs and values.
You & me, we really don’t know whether what we are presupposing is true or not. It’s all based on faith. So let us fervently wait for the Day of Resurrection that we might meet each other at the table of the Lord.
God bless you & your family richly.
Shalom shalom,
Emmanuel
Dear brothers and sisters in humanity,
Few notes to ponder.
These lists are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible, especially problems which are inherent in a literalist or fundamentalist interpretation. Some of the selections may be resolvable on certain interpretations–after all, almost any problem can be eliminated with suitable rationalizations–but it is the reader’s obligation to test this possibility and to decide whether it really makes appropriate sense to do this. To help readers in this task, these lists are aimed at presenting examples where problems may exist given certain allowable (but not always obligatory) assumptions. It should be kept in mind that a perfect and omnipotent God could, should, and likely would see to it that such problems did not exist in a book which s/he had inspired. It should also be kept in mind that what is and is not an atrocity is to some extent a matter of opinion. You are entitled to disagree with the author that these are, in fact, atrocities.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html
Thank you
Dear Brother Emmanuel,
Thanks for your prayer. I will also pray to Allah that He guide us to the most righteous path.
The path of Allah is filled with test and tribulation. Let’s this discussion strengthen our faith to The Almighty instead of it breaking our hearts.
True. We don’t know the real truth until we meet The Almighty in the Day of Judgement. Allah asked Prophet to objectively say that in Quran;
34:24 Say: “Who gives you sustenance, from the heavens and the earth?” Say: “It is Allah. and certain it is that either WE or YE are on right guidance or in manifest error”
At the meantime, let us seek, understand and discover along the way because the truth is not the destination, but the journey itself. Faith is not only word and conviction, but action and perseverence.
4:36 Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- Al Quran
I personally don’t like people asking me to read a directed web link since I like to read his/her summary of thought instead of other people thought that he/shares, but can you do me a favour by reading this weblink because it very much resembles your story of finding the truth ( as I assumed
).
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/Yusuf_story.htm
Allah said:5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. Al Quran
3:45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Al Masih Isa, the son of Maryam, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. Al Quran
Thank your very much Brother Emmanuel
Syukri
Kuala Lumpur
Brother Emmanuel,
Allow me to reply to you reality check on Islam dated April 12, 2009
I agree with you that violence is exist in both religion, in fact, in all religions. Expecting a perfect world is a utopian and never be materialized because Allah want this world to be the place of test and imperfection so that we can strife and put effort.
But we can’t say that because the both religion contain some violence, therefore they are the same. Example, having similar feature to human like eyes, nose and leg does not make monkey similar to human because we are assessed in a bigger perspective.
There are degree, motives and perspective that need to be looked into. For example, with regard to antisemitism in Medieval Islam, it was local and sporadic rather than general and endemic. For Goitein antisemitism was not present at all, and for Cahen it was rarely present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism
VIOLENCE IN ISLAM
Let me respond to my ‘dirty laundry’ that your presented to me on…
http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/index.htm
My response :Bloody self beating by shia is a practise done by minority shia and frown upon by mainstream muslim.
And it started earlier from your ‘dirty laundry’. The self beating has it root in Christianity called ‘flagellation’ or mortification of flesh.
Mortification of the flesh literally means “putting the flesh to death”. The term is primarily used in religious and spiritual contexts. The institutional and traditional terminology of this practice in Catholicism is corporal mortification.
The term “mortification of the flesh” comes from Saint Paul in this quote: “For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live”.The same idea is seen in the following verses: “Put to death what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry” “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires”.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_of_the_flesh
Wikipedia says; The Flagellation refers in a Christian context to the Flagellation of Christ, an episode in the Passion of Christ prior to the Jesus’ crucifixion. The practice of mortification of the flesh for religious purposes was utilized by some Christians throughout most of Christian history, especially in Catholic monasteries and convents. In the 13th century, a radical group of christians, known as the Flagellants, took this practice to an extreme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation
The question is, does Islam promote violence? I say : No. Then you may say that’s because I’m Muslim and I must glorify Islam no matter what. However, the matter is not as simple as that. Most of the account of history that I refer is not from Muslim source to show the objectivity of my claim.
ISLAM AND PEACE/TOLERANCE
Islam accepts difference of religion within its political sphere and believe in peaceful co existence. When Muslim are powerful and lead the majority, there will be always non-Muslim who are living in prosperity. The closer example are like Chinese in Malaysia and Indonesia who are given equal right of citizenship and right to vote to chose their representative and given important ministerial post in government to develop the country.
If you go little back earlier in history, Christian are given opportunity to participate in Muslim Spain in science that contribute to the foundation of renaissance. The society of Al-Andalus was made up of three main religious groups: Christians, Muslims and Jews. Mozarabs were Christians that had long lived under Muslim rule and so had adopted many Arabic customs, art and words, while still maintaining their Christian rituals and their own Romance languages.
MarÃa Rosa Menocal, a specialist in Iberian literature, has argued that “tolerance was an inherent aspect of Andalusian society. In her view, the Jewish and Christian dhimmis living under the Caliphate, while allowed fewer rights than Muslims, were much better off than in other parts of Christian Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus
Islam also contributed greatly to The renaissance. The renaissance of Europe will not be completed without Islamic civilization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
Go back further, in Ottoman caliphate, Christians and Jews are involved in administration and enjoyed relative prosperity. During inquisition, Jews went to Muslim countries like Morocco and Turkey.
Wikipedia says: The Ottoman Empire was, in principle, tolerant towards Christians and Jews, but not polytheists, in accordance with Sharia law. Forced conversion is counter to Sharia law, and was not standard practice, so was not practiced. Though far short of modern standards, Ottoman tolerance was particularly constructive compared to the contemporary situation in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
And go back back further, Caliph Umar accepted the key of Jerusalem himself showing the just leader who were accepted even by non muslim. The treaty outlines the rights of Christians and Jews as “People of the Book” or “people of protection” to enjoy religious freedom under Muslim rule, while outlining their responsibility to pay taxes (jizya). Both Palestinian Christians and Muslims see the document as having the force of law, even after more than thirteen centuries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Umariyya_Covenant
And interestingly, during prophet Muhammad time, one of his servant was a Jewish boy, one of his wife was Maria the Coptic who bore him a son ( she was Christian ) and Safiyyah who was a Jewish.
Non-muslim in muslim authority are treated specially and they are called ‘dhimmi’ or protected one.Bernard Lewis states that in most respects their position “was very much easier than that of non-Christians or even of heretical Christians in medieval Europe. For example, dhimmis rarely faced martyrdom or exile, or forced compulsion to change their religion, and with certain exceptions they were free in their choice of residence and profession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi
I think you know about Crusade and Saladin. Wikipedia says about him: Notwithstanding the differences in beliefs, the Muslim Saladin was respected by Christian lords, Richard especially. Richard once praised Saladin as a great prince, saying that he was without doubt the greatest and most powerful leader in the Islamic world.[97] Saladin in turn stated that there was not a more honorable Christian lord than Richard. After the treaty, Saladin and Richard sent each other many gifts as tokens of respect, but never met face to face again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin
I went to Egypt last year, and it was amazing to see church every where in Cairo even though Christians are only represent less than 10 per cent of the population. Can I see an ancient mosque in europe as a proof of relegious tolerance of Christians?
This account of Muslim history are reflection of the divine order by Allah in The Holy Quran:
2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. Al Quran
60:8 As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. Al Quran.
CHRISTIANITY AND PEACE
I may be biased toward Christianity in which I would like to apologize, but I don’t compose and compile the facts of atrocities done by Christian through history below.
http://www.buckcash.com/opinions/temp/Christian_Crimeline.htm
The church, the most sacred place in Christianity is no escape from abuse and ungodliness. The scandal of priest is not a myth. It’s undeniable fact and well known.
Wikipedia says: During a recent visit to the United States Pope Benedict admitted that he is “deeply ashamed” of the clergy sex abuse scandal that has devastated the American church. Benedict pledged that pedophiles would not be priests in the Roman Catholic Church. Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, retired Archbishop of Washington, blamed the declining morals of the late 20th century as a cause of the high number of sexually abusive priests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_scandal
EMMANUEL REZA
Brother Emmanuel, I must admit that the way you present your argument show at least you are a rational and scholarly person. You have integrity and objectivity in your ideas. Your English is superb.
Brother Emmanuel, I wonder whether you have studied Islam as deeply as as you studied Christianity before you chose Jesus as your saviour. Or it is based on faith alone? Or because love is blind? If that so, why all these arguments and discussion?
Did you read the whole Quran and study arabic as you studied Bible, Hebrew and Greek? Did you read history about Islam and Christianity objectively and justly before you decided to leave Islam? Did you read about Prophet Muhammad and his life? I wonder..
Syukri
Kuala Lumpur
Syukri,
If i were to choose which faith to follow, I will follow Christianity now.
Look at you. From beginning to end you post criticism about Christianity. You said you were sorry time and again. But time and again you post those kind of statements.
Not once I see the Christians attacking you. Though this is a christian blog after all.
Arent you ashame? Is this how Islam has taught you to dakwah?
And your facts are so illogical. All you did was quoted it from some website and expect people to listen to you as though you are some scholar.
Have some respect to Allah. Present and dakwah yourself in a manner where you glorify Allah.
Many Christians I know will evangelise without criticising other religions. Maybe a few black sheeps. But most dont. They believe in the power of their gospel message. Syukri, do you believe in the power of the Word of Allah the Quran? Than present yourself in that manner if you believe! Dakwah and present Islam! What you are doing actually embarass me alot!
Your last post is filled with randomness. You just choose a topic and then change it and then move on to another topic. Then the final touch it looks so well written but actually everything is copy and paste. You spend your time so much on the internet finding information to post here and you forgot to spend time to talk about Allah.
Malulah!